X-Message-Number: 24217 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:37:00 -0700 From: James Swayze <> Subject: Re: Lots and lots of oil but ne'er a drop to burn References: <> > >Message #24209 >From: "michaelprice" <> >References: <> >Subject: Re : More reasons to get to North America, while you can >Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:38:21 +0100 > > > <snip> >We are not running out of oil - we are running into oil. The world has used >15% of all the oil we believe there to be - that leaves 85% untouched. > > > So what. Why scarf down every last drop? >Message #24213 >From: "Basie" <> >References: <> >Subject: Gasoline >Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:35:58 -0400 > >Gasoline is and have been made from coal for forty years in South Africa. >The world have virtually endless supplies of coal. > Not really, nothing is endless. > If the price of oil gets >a little bit higher all countries will start making gasoline from coal. > > > Hardly a better alternative to going hydrogen. My right wing wacko brother argues with me about how much oil there is and against going hydrogen. Says he doesn't like hydrogen because it's converting o ne form of energy to another. LOL! As if digging for il wasn't! I had to laugh my ass off the other day when he added to his ignorance and actually said, "There's nothing wrong with burning oil!" I won't repeat here what I said to him. I was quite angry with him, mostly for being a fool and my kin. I thought to myself let's do an experiment, I'll get a hydrogen powered car and you keep your gas guzzler and we'll lock ourselves in sealed garages with the engines running and see who comes out... nothing wrong with burning oil INDEED! Some of you chemists might edify us all with the list of noxious materials coming out of the tailpipe of a car or the smokestack of a coal burning electric plant. But really everyone here shouldn't need a chemistry lesson to know the ill effects of burning fossil fuels. I don't have to look up the byproducts of burning hydrogen, IT'S WATER! The difference should be obvious to even the most stubbornly ignorant of intellects... like my brother, but apparently not. What mischief being wedded to political ideology produces... total lack of reason. If absolutely clean emissions alone isn't incentive enough to move away from oil I don't know what is. And it's quite easy to do. You simply take a hydrogen fuel cell and run it backwards. Using a solar panel or two or a windmill electric generator pump in electricity and some water and magically out comes hydrogen! A self contained mini plant like this can produce it all day long for practically free once the cost of building it is paid for. Converting regular gas burning cars to be able to burn hydrogen is easy and cheap and not even necessary to go with hydrogen fuel cell utilization albeit probably more efficient. Hydrogen can also be safely stored as body panels even bumpers of the vehicle utilizing a new solid state storage tech and this is even safer than gasoline, there's nothing flammable in enough quantity to blow up or catch fire! How do I know all this? I saw it on PBS on the Scientific American Frontiers program (1). View self contained mini plant producing hydrogen here using Windows Media Player: http://www.pbs.org/perl/media.cgir?t=w&f=virage/scientific/pbssaf1403_220k.asf&s=2724575&e=3288887 View car conversion and solid state storage here using Windows Media Player: http://www.pbs.org/perl/media.cgir?t=w&f=virage/scientific/pbssaf1403_220k.asf&s=2217452&e=3288887 Find more clips of the program here: http://pbs-saf.virage.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=template.html&query=iceland&viKeyword=iceland&Search=Search If I had the money to I'd build one of those reverse fuel cell plants and put a giant burning torch on it powered by the product. I'd let that torch burn night and day while gasoline users drove by puzzled by the apparent waste of fuel. Then I'd put up a great big sign saying, "You could be driving on this for a fraction of the cost of your gasoline! Convert your car now." But what about the other cost of continuing to use oil? How about terrorism? Oh ya, let's keep pumping dollars into the hands of totalitarian regimes that fund Madras' [sp?] teaching hate toward westerners and our democracy. Let's keep feeding them and helping them to raise generation after generation of malignant irrational terrorists that haven't a clue who their real enemy is, oh ya good plan that is! How about instead we wall off the whole damn region and let them eat their goddamn oil! It doesn't matter how much oil we have left or how efficiently we can squeeze out every last drop. We shouldn't simply use it up just because it is there. That should be obvious. James (1) Future Car http://www.pbs.org/saf/1403/index.html Premieres May 19, 2004 Alan Alda begins this show driving a Model T - because, as he puts it, "A century after Gottlieb Daimler built the first Mercedes and Henry Ford founded his car company, the car industry has finally realized that the technologies it's relied on for those one hundred years are as quaintly outdated today as was the Model T back in 1927." Alan visits the research labs and testing tracks of the Big 3 automakers - including DaimlerChrysler in Germany - to find out what will replace today's car technologies in the cars we'll drive 20 years from now. What he finds are cars that will understand their drivers and anticipate problems (like driving through a stop sign!) as well as cars that are far more fuel efficient, like the gasoline-electric hybrids that are already appearing on our roads. Most significantly, Alan test-drives cars that no longer rely on the internal combustion engine and gasoline but instead are powered by fuel cells running on hydrogen. He meets many in the auto industry - like General Motors' VP Larry Burns - who argue that only way to sell more cars in the future - including to the fast growing market in China - is to free cars from oil, "taking them out of the environmental equation." Alan's investigation of the prospects for a quiet, fast, safe, exciting and non-polluting fuel cell car in every garage takes him from Stuttgart to California - and to Iceland, which is attempting to become the first nation to entirely replace imported petroleum with domestically produced hydrogen, generated from the volcanic heat that lies just beneath the island's surface. -- Member: Cryonics Institute of Michigan http://www.cryonics.org The Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org/info.html The Society for Venturism http://www.venturist.org Immortality Institute http://www.imminst.org Methuselah Foundation http://www.methuselahfoundation.org Methuselah Mouse Prize http://www.methuselahmouse.org [Give $$$ for life!] World Transhumanist Association http://www.transhumanism.org/ Marijuana Policy Project http://www.mpp.org American Civil Liberties Union http://www.aclu.org Nat. Resources Defense Council http://www.nrdc.org Act For Change http://www.actforchange.org People for American Way http://www.pfaw.org MY WEBSITE: http://www.davidpascal.com/swayze/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24217