X-Message-Number: 24632 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:54:51 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: for Kennita, RudiH, DSS, Swayze, Jon To several messengers on Cryonets 24621-24631: I will try to discuss their messages in the order they appeared. First, for Kennita Watson: airplanes powered directly by nuclear reactors may come, but they would likely be much larger than any airplanes practical today, not for technological reasons but because no airline could get enough customers to fill them enough to profit from using them (presently). However one simple thing to do is to use a fixed nuclear reactor to make hydrogen fuel for our airplanes. If lots of people get over their hangups about nuclear power then that looks almost inevitable --- hydrogen to power not just our autos, trucks, and buses, but our airplanes too. And that day is likely to be much closer than many think (as in my last message on this subject). And for those readers of Cryonet who don't like the use of nuclear power to substitute for coal, oil, gas, etc, I am happy to discuss this issue in more detail, but not on Cryonet. For Rudi Hoffman: Gee, you're right about cryonics in the midst of disasters. Right now working out how to get victims suspended in such disasters looks like it's low priority, with many other problems needing solution too. However (not that I expect any of the cryonics societies to immediately take up this question) besides running away from the scene of an impending disaster, ALL the supplies needed for suspension (including fuel, electric generators, and other things not normally needed) might be stored in hardened places underground. But that's for a future in which cryonics is much more widespread and we've solved a lot of prior problems, such as verifiable and reversible vitrification of brains. For David Stodolsky: What experts believe that a nuclear war is probable in a few years time, and why do they believe it? If a relatively primitive country sends relatively primitive missiles against the US (or for that matter, any other advanced country) the antimissile batteries should be able to remove that particular threat. (Note that I said "relatively primitive": antimissiles against advanced missile systems would not work very well at all --- but I note that no such attacks seem likely in the near future (10 years at least)). Smuggling bombs into the US would meet with the same problems that smuggling disease weapons into the US. Moreover it's the possibility that a country might soon develop such weapons that creates the possibility of striking them preemptively. I note that Israel, not the US, destroyed one of Iraq's nuclear reactors for just that reason. Do such preemptive strikes constitute nuclear war? Finally, even though I live now in Australia, it's not clear to me that doing so protects me from such threats, nor did I go to Australia when I first went there for that reason. Australia has gotten its own share of terrorist attacks, from Bali to the recent attack on the Australian embassy in Djakarta. So back to my first question: who are these experts who are saying that a nuclear war may happen relatively soon? To James Swayze: Your description of how too many people still unthinkingly adopt the notion of dualism, body and soul (yes, I know it's not originally yours) is an excellent account of one of cryonic's public problems. I want to read the second part of the article. I will add, though, two points: first, we don't have to convert the majority of the population of any country to our views, just keep them from getting on our backs. Second, given another full century, a lot can change, including such things as the dualist tendency. To Jon (dadadodo6): What you say depends a lot on just what you mean by "seeing" events such as antiaging... or mind emulation or nanotechnology. Given present work on vitrification nanotechnology will probably not be needed for revival of vitrified patients with relatively simple problems. Curing their diseases might well use nanotechnological methods, at least in the broadest sense. To attain a state in which we do not age constitutes a GOAL of cryonicists; it need not already exist before cryonics (in the sense of suspension for a long time until such things as antiaging come about). Finally, I'd like to know what you mean by the simple phrase "mind emulation". Some cryonicists would argue that an emulation of you would not be the same as you; others would argue the opposite. As for my personal opinion, as much as it's worth, I think that a sufficiently fine emulation of myself, created after my destruction, would arguably be a continuation of myself --- but I'll also have to add that the criteria for a "sufficiently fine" emulation would be so exacting that such emulations, if they ever become possible, will only become possible long after both cryonics and antiaging have succeeded. What fun! For some time Cryonets haven't awakened much interest in me for a reply. And the last one had several messages which merited replies. Best wishes and long long life to all. Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24632