X-Message-Number: 24661
References: <>
From: Peter Merel <>
Subject: Americans and Abassids
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:16:58 +1000

Thomas Donaldson suggests:

> advanced countries are doing far
> better than any Muslim country has ever done, both in prosperity
> and intellectual advances, and they know very deep and dark in
> their hearts that most of this prosperity comes precisely because
> NONE of these advanced countries is a Muslim country or close to
> one (morally, not physically). We mock their Muslim identity
> simply by living as prosperously as we do.
>
> I could be wrong here, but I think the problem is much deeper
> than simply oil.

Thomas may care to investigate Baghdad's origin under the Abassid 
dynasty in the 800s. That culture was the center of civilization in the 
world. It translated the entire sum of human knowledge into a single 
language - arabic - and employed this as the basis for fundamental 
advances in scientific methods, mathematics, medicine, agriculture, 
optics, mineralogy, meteorology, astronomy, and many other fields. It 
remains to be seen whether America will maintain its leading role in 
world history for so long as the medieval moslems. Even if so, Thomas's 
suggestion that America has advanced because it is a christian country 
is base prejudice, and his assumption that America has developed 
independent of Moslem countries ignores at least a hundred years of 
American history.

As to whether there are technological alternatives to oil, OF COURSE 
THERE ARE. I'm certain Thomas doesn't really mean to patronize the rest 
of cryonet by pretending we're unaware of advances in fuel cells, 
methods of oil retrieval, and the like. But the problem with these new 
technologies is one of installation, not invention. Putting new 
technological infrastructure in place, particularly with reference to 
hydrogen technologies, must occur on a timeframe of decades, not years. 
Even if mines, gasoline engines, turbines, and furnaces could be 
converted easily, there is no real economic impetus to change 
infrastructure until the wolf bites. The conceit that infrastructure 
transition can occur without economic bumps is one that would only 
appeal to an academic.

In the meanwhile the continuity of oil flow, whether due to 
geopolitical or monopolistic manipulations of price, or due to 
spiralling demand from the emerging/re-emerging superpowers, or due to 
sudden supply shortages - and whether Thomas wants to examine Mark 
Plus's statistics in detail or not, they appear alarming to a poor old 
engineer like me - the continuity of Western oil supply is a focus of 
geopolitical force. Spikes in supply or demand must have knock-on 
effects throughout the entire western industrial chain. But "the roads 
must roll" - and so the American war seems motivated primarily by these 
issues.

I hope that Thomas will extend himself and consider the devils in the 
details. It's all very well to take pride in our culture for its 
splendid technological and social innovations - but  there's always 
that thing that pride goeth before ...

Peter Merel.

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