X-Message-Number: 24708 From: "Brian Wowk" <> Subject: Narcissistic Cryonicists Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:45:41 -0700 First of all, if I had intended my comments to be public I would have made them publicly. Unfortunately I see private debate with Mr. Verbeke is impossible since he doesn't understand how discourteous it is to publicly post private correspondence without permission. So here we are. David Verbeke wrote: >> And why do these religious politicians perceive cryonics as an attack on religion Mr. Wowk? << Because everytime you self-righteously proclaim that you are going to "bring people back from the dead and make them immortal" you are messing with their turf. Immortality and afterlife are the right and proper subjects of religion. They have nothing to do with cryonics. Cryonics isn't going to bring anybody back from the dead (by definition). Nor will it make anybody immortal (last time I looked, glycerol has no cosmological effects). Religious people perceive cryonics as an attack on religion not because of anything intrinsic to cryonics, but because of arrogant cryonicists who depict cryonics in a manner that attacks religion. Case in point: >> Just because when you bring back a person from 'dead' you certainly prove that there is nothing more than neurons and fysical structures. << Resuscitation proves nothing, except that the person wasn't really dead in the first place. Cryonics isn't breaking ANY new philosophical ground that hasn't already been covered by resuscitation medicine. Cryonicists only think they are doing something philosophically new because of their exaggerated sense of self-importance, and because they enjoy being confrontational rather than inclusive. As more evidence, look at the ad at end of yesterday's CryoNet advertising a "Church of Cryonics." Can you imagine some starting a "Church of Coronary Bypass" where they will recite the basic doctrine: "myocardial perfusion depends solely on arterial flow, independent of vessel source..." ? Imagine the Red Cross selling CPR certification courses by advertising, "Why suffer the pain and agony of funeral arrangements? You too can learn to bring your friends and loved ones back from the dead! Learn CPR, the scientific alternative to burial and cremation for your dead loved one. For a limited time, buy our Automatic External Defibrillator, and prove once and for all there is no God!" They could even have promotional literature with pictures of coffins with footprints leading away from them. Why be mindful of a cultural taboo, when you can flaunt it instead? Nationwide, a few hundred people might actually take the course. Welcome to cryonics. ---Brian Wowk Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24708