X-Message-Number: 24708
From: "Brian Wowk" <>
Subject: Narcissistic Cryonicists
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:45:41 -0700

   First of all, if I had intended my comments to be public I would have
made them publicly.  Unfortunately I see private debate with Mr. Verbeke is
impossible since he doesn't understand how discourteous it is to publicly
post private correspondence without permission.  So here we are.

David Verbeke wrote:

And why do these religious politicians perceive cryonics as an attack on
religion Mr. Wowk?

    Because everytime you self-righteously proclaim that you are going to
"bring people back from the dead and make them immortal" you are messing
with their turf.  Immortality and afterlife are the right and proper
subjects of religion.  They have nothing to do with cryonics.  Cryonics
isn't going to bring anybody back from the dead (by definition).  Nor will
it make anybody immortal (last time I looked, glycerol has no cosmological
effects).  Religious people perceive cryonics as an attack on religion not
because of anything intrinsic to cryonics, but because of arrogant
cryonicists who depict cryonics in a manner that attacks religion.

    Case in point:

Just because when you bring back a person from 'dead'
you certainly prove that there is nothing more than neurons and fysical

    Resuscitation proves nothing, except that the person wasn't really dead
in the first place.  Cryonics isn't breaking ANY new philosophical ground
that hasn't already been covered by resuscitation medicine.  Cryonicists
only think they are doing something philosophically new because of their
exaggerated sense of self-importance, and because they enjoy being
confrontational rather than inclusive.  As more evidence, look at the ad at
end of yesterday's CryoNet advertising a "Church of Cryonics."  Can you
imagine some starting a "Church of Coronary Bypass" where they will recite
the basic doctrine: "myocardial perfusion depends solely on arterial flow,
independent of vessel source..." ?

    Imagine the Red Cross selling CPR certification courses by advertising,
"Why suffer the pain and agony of funeral arrangements?  You too can learn
to bring your friends and loved ones back from the dead!  Learn CPR, the
scientific alternative to burial and cremation for your dead loved one.  For
a limited time, buy our Automatic External Defibrillator, and prove once and
for all there is no God!" They could even have promotional literature with
pictures of coffins with footprints leading away from them.  Why be mindful
of a cultural taboo, when you can flaunt it instead?  Nationwide, a few
hundred people might actually take the course.  Welcome to cryonics.

---Brian Wowk

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