X-Message-Number: 24721
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: Live! Live!!
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:43:32 +0100

> From: 
> Subject: Live! Live!!
> Religion always opposes intervention in the will of God

I really don't see this as a problem for cryonicists unless debating the
issue with someone who doesn't have a proper grasp of theology.
http://www.cryonics-europe.org/religion0.htm and select "Cryonics and

A dictionary definition of God is "omnipotent being".

Religions suggest God has all sorts of other properties, and these
properties can vary between religions. But anything other than "omnipotent"
is a side issue - even whether God is conscious! If a religion suggests that
their God is not omnipotent, then that God must have a God over him. This is
how the pantheistic religions worked, but even with those there was a "God
leader" who ruled over everything.

This suggests that "god" is the sum total of the whole of everything,
therefore it is impossible for anything within the universe to oppose
his/her/its will. God *is* the universe. What happens *is* God's Will. To
that extent, it is possible for both sides of a war to say that God is on
their side. The war itself is God's will, simply because it happens. An
example would be a football match. The spectators wouldn't be very pleased
if one side resigned at the start and walked off, even that part of the
crowd whose side won by default!

There are many theological and philosophical treatises written on the nature
of free will, and indeed this is a subject for biologists, psychologists,
and physicists as well as philosophers parapsychologists  and theologians.
Each has their own slant and way of describing things. Many of these
academic disciplines take words form the other and give them different
meanings, which makes reading these treatises all the more difficult if you
want the underlying truth.

Another way of putting it is that the will of God can be known by hindsight.

In any case, as I and others have said before, cryonics does not confer
immortality. You can never be immortal because you'd have to live for ever
to be sure and forever never comes.

Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and

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