X-Message-Number: 24899
From:  (The Singer From Hawaii)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 01:45:31 -1000
Subject: Re: CryoNet #24887 - #24896

Rudy,were are you?    Look forward to your insight on #24887 ?  Your
friend ,Ron in Hawaii.

Mahalo,  Ron & Ellie        

  Aloha is not just a saying.... it is a way of living each day. "Be


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Subject: CryoNet #24887 - #24896
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CryoNet - Fri 22 Oct 2004

    #24887: Re: Infinite life again [Scott Badger]
    #24888: living forever: comparison of lifespans? [Michael C Price]
    #24889: Total Recall  [Michael C Price]
    #24890: Clones?  (was ..Distributive backups) [Michael C Price]
    #24891: American aviation's "catastrophic failure" [Mark Plus]
    #24892: Hell!   (.... was Immortalism, my comments) [Michael C Price]
    #24893: old unaugmented biological brains  [Basie]
    #24894: Bill Gates? [David]
    #24895: Cryonics in British Columbia [Doug Skrecky]
    #24896: Cryonics in France [Azt28]

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Message #24887
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Badger <>
Subject: Re: Infinite life again

From: "Basie" <>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:06:35 -0400

< ...If you could live a million years you are going
to forget a big chunk.>

Do you really believe that if we're alive a million
years from now that we'll still be walking around with
the same old unaugmented biological brains we have
now? Not likely in my estimation, not by a very long
shot. I expect involuntary memory loss to be a thing
of the past in the not too distant future.



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Message #24888
From: "Michael C Price" <>
References: <>
Subject: living forever: comparison of lifespans?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:02:57 +0100

Hi John,
rather than try to compare the value of a finite lifespan with
an infinite lifespan, I prefer to think of them as different classes
of objects: one has an endpoint and the other doesn't, so it
doesn't really make much sense to compare them together.  It's
like trying to compare finite numbers with transfinites: there's
not much you can say about such comparisons, except that
every transfinite number is bigger than any finite number.

The situation becomes more complicated once we start
copying ourselves.  Instead of world-lines or life-lines we have
life-trees.  Some branches will terminate and some proliferate
endlessly; trying to compare their subjective value becomes
even more difficult and perhaps impossible.  Some branches 
may not care about what happens to other branches;
other branches may feel an affinity for the whole tree.

Michael C Price

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Message #24889
From: "Michael C Price" <>
References: <>
Subject: Total Recall 
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:03:18 +0100

Basie says:

> I think the wrong questions are asked about living forever.
> The question should be when in an infinite life have you
> forgotten significant chunks of your li[f]e. If you could live 
> a million years you are going to forget a big chunk.

I would think that the problem of overwriting or otherwise
losing memories will be solved in the next century or two.
Until then I would say we are not fully alive; or rather that
will have reached a higher plane of consciousness when we
are able to remember all that we experience -- although I
hold out no hope for total recall of current events.

> In a sense we are dead

Half-dead, anyway!

> already because everyday we forget things that happened.

Michael C Price

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Message #24890
From: "Michael C Price" <>
References: <>
Subject: Clones?  (was ..Distributive backups)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:03:33 +0100

James asks:
> Michael,
> Suppose in some weird 'other universe', people have
> developed the practice of making clones of themselves

I would rather talk of duplicates and backups, not clones.
A backup I would not regard as having rights, but if activated
(i.e. now a freewilled duplicate of me, diverging from some
point in my past) then I would wish it to have the same rights
as myself.  Whether society will take the same view is
another matter.

Michael C Price

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Message #24891
From: "Mark Plus" <>
Subject: American aviation's "catastrophic failure"
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:21:08 -0700

You have to wonder how long civilian airlines in other countries can stay in 
business with declining net oil supplies, even with government subsidies. 
The window for cryonicists' easy transportation to North America is rapidly 

Manage your risk, not your terror.

Mark Plus


Top US airlines suffer heavy 3Q losses
By Kevin Done in London
Published: October 20 2004 20:04 | Last updated: October 20 2004 20:04

Three of the top four US airlines on Wednesday disclosed heavy third quarter 
losses underlining the parlous state of the US aviation industry.

.... The US Business Travel Coalition, representing corporate travel buyers, 
warned last week, that there was an  increasing probability that the US 
airline industry will experience a catastrophic failure in the next 12 
months defined as two or three major network airline liquidations .

Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx

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Message #24892
From: "Michael C Price" <>
References: <>
Subject: Hell!   (.... was Immortalism, my comments)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:26:26 +0100

Mike Perry writes:
> I think the prospect of such resurrections is realistic due to 
> certain other possibilities I consider likely, such as parallel
> universes. It's important to me that a pathway to the renewal 
> of life exist--so the dead will have not died in vain, and all will, 
> one hopes, eventually enjoy eternal bliss. Overall it suggests that 
> life, not death, is the ultimate fate of any individual, even those 
> who are sure they don't want immortality--you will just have to 
> learn to live with it, whether you like it or not. (You will like it 
> in the end, however, I feel reasonably sure.) In the scientifically 
> engineered heaven that I imagine

In the infinity diverse multiverse which you & I believe in there must 
be scientifically engineered hells full of boiling pitch and demons with
pitchforks, "creepy-crawly things or lakes of lava".  Of course we 
can find shaky super-rationalist based arguments, to say that the 
heavens must outnumber the hells (just many modern Christians 
prefer to believe in heaven but not hell), but hells must exist 
*somewhere* in this paradigm.  This is one reason *not* rely on 
universal resurrection, but to try to live in *this* reality, forever.

See you in hell, buddy.  :-(

Michael C Price

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Message #24893
From: "Basie" <>
Subject: old unaugmented biological brains 
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:03:26 -0400

Don't knock your old unaugmented biological brains. It is the only kind of
intelligence around. It seems that any other kind of intelligence did not
make it to the future or pass.

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Message #24894
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:00:44 -0600
From: David <>
Subject: Bill Gates?
References: <>

Has anyone thought of going after Bill Gates & wife as possible cryonics 
candidates and supporters? Surely he would like to see the state of the 
world in 100 years? If he publicly supported us it would arouse a lot of 
interest in cryonics.


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Message #24895
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:11:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug Skrecky <>
Subject: Cryonics in British Columbia

> Message #24876 From: olaf henny <>
> In Message No. 24854 Thomas Donaldson wrote in part:
> "1. To Doug Skrecky: If I understand rightly, you live in Vancouver, in
>    Canada, in the area ruled by the only government which forbids
>    cryonics societies totally -- British Columbia."
> That is wrong.  About two years ago the Solicitor General of British
> Columbia clarified this in a letter to me.
  BC companies are banned from offering cryonics services. This ban does
not apply to Alcor or CI, since these are not BC companies. However this
ban does effectively prevent a good quality cryopreservation in BC.
Hospital staff and even funeral homes would have to prudently check with
their lawyers before agreeing to aid in any cryonics case. I'm told there
was such a case recently, and the results were not good.
  Bottom line is that any terminal patient in BC, who wishes to be
cryopreserved well, has no realistic option but to get-out-of-Dodge,
and travel to either Toronto, or slip across the border before expiring.
  There is currently no move to attempt to change Section 57. However
when fully reversible cryopreservation of mammals is achieved I expect
a number of us Canucks will become involved in such an attempt. The
current Legislation was written assuming that such reversible
cryopreservation is impossible, and thus Section 57 is unlikely to survive
very long once its basic premise is falsified.

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Message #24896
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:02:21 EDT
Subject: Cryonics in France

A technical facility will be completed in a short time, next week I think. 

Some finition works will be in order for some time. A part of the activity will
be to start an animal cryonics service. This is a first step to be sure. The 
main objective in the medium term is to build some elements of a brain reader 
as exposed 1.5 years ago.

Yvan Bozzonetti.

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