X-Message-Number: 24899 From: (The Singer From Hawaii) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 01:45:31 -1000 Subject: Re: CryoNet #24887 - #24896 Rudy,were are you? Look forward to your insight on #24887 ? Your friend ,Ron in Hawaii. Mahalo, Ron & Ellie Aloha is not just a saying.... it is a way of living each day. "Be Happy" Content-Disposition: Inline Received: from smtpin-3301.bay.webtv.net (209.240.205.149) by storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:00:26 -0700 Received: from rho.pair.com (rho.pair.com [209.68.1.31]) by smtpin-3301.bay.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with SMTP id 9C837E12B for <>; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51210 invoked by uid 800); 22 Oct 2004 09:00:03 -0000 Resent-Date: 22 Oct 2004 09:00:03 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; Date: 22 Oct 2004 09:00:01 -0000 Message-ID: <> Approved: Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:?subject=unsubscribe> Subject: CryoNet #24887 - #24896 From: CryoNet <> To: Resent-Message-ID: <> Resent-From: X-Mailing-List: <> archive/latest/2816 X-Loop: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: X-Brightmail: Message tested, results are inconclusive CryoNet - Fri 22 Oct 2004 #24887: Re: Infinite life again [Scott Badger] #24888: living forever: comparison of lifespans? [Michael C Price] #24889: Total Recall [Michael C Price] #24890: Clones? (was ..Distributive backups) [Michael C Price] #24891: American aviation's "catastrophic failure" [Mark Plus] #24892: Hell! (.... was Immortalism, my comments) [Michael C Price] #24893: old unaugmented biological brains [Basie] #24894: Bill Gates? [David] #24895: Cryonics in British Columbia [Doug Skrecky] #24896: Cryonics in France [Azt28] Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24887%2D24896 Administrivia To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to: with the subject line (not message _body_): subscribe To unsubscribe, use the subject line: unsubscribe Message #24887 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Badger <> Subject: Re: Infinite life again From: "Basie" <> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:06:35 -0400 < ...If you could live a million years you are going to forget a big chunk.> Do you really believe that if we're alive a million years from now that we'll still be walking around with the same old unaugmented biological brains we have now? Not likely in my estimation, not by a very long shot. I expect involuntary memory loss to be a thing of the past in the not too distant future. Cheers, Scott Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24887 Message #24888 From: "Michael C Price" <> References: <> Subject: living forever: comparison of lifespans? Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:02:57 +0100 Hi John, rather than try to compare the value of a finite lifespan with an infinite lifespan, I prefer to think of them as different classes of objects: one has an endpoint and the other doesn't, so it doesn't really make much sense to compare them together. It's like trying to compare finite numbers with transfinites: there's not much you can say about such comparisons, except that every transfinite number is bigger than any finite number. The situation becomes more complicated once we start copying ourselves. Instead of world-lines or life-lines we have life-trees. Some branches will terminate and some proliferate endlessly; trying to compare their subjective value becomes even more difficult and perhaps impossible. Some branches may not care about what happens to other branches; other branches may feel an affinity for the whole tree. Cheers, Michael C Price Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24888 Message #24889 From: "Michael C Price" <> References: <> Subject: Total Recall Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:03:18 +0100 Basie says: > I think the wrong questions are asked about living forever. > The question should be when in an infinite life have you > forgotten significant chunks of your li[f]e. If you could live > a million years you are going to forget a big chunk. I would think that the problem of overwriting or otherwise losing memories will be solved in the next century or two. Until then I would say we are not fully alive; or rather that will have reached a higher plane of consciousness when we are able to remember all that we experience -- although I hold out no hope for total recall of current events. > In a sense we are dead Half-dead, anyway! > already because everyday we forget things that happened. Cheers, Michael C Price Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24889 Message #24890 From: "Michael C Price" <> References: <> Subject: Clones? (was ..Distributive backups) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:03:33 +0100 James asks: > Michael, > > Suppose in some weird 'other universe', people have > developed the practice of making clones of themselves [.......] I would rather talk of duplicates and backups, not clones. A backup I would not regard as having rights, but if activated (i.e. now a freewilled duplicate of me, diverging from some point in my past) then I would wish it to have the same rights as myself. Whether society will take the same view is another matter. Cheers, Michael C Price Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24890 Message #24891 From: "Mark Plus" <> Subject: American aviation's "catastrophic failure" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:21:08 -0700 You have to wonder how long civilian airlines in other countries can stay in business with declining net oil supplies, even with government subsidies. The window for cryonicists' easy transportation to North America is rapidly closing. Manage your risk, not your terror. Mark Plus http://tinyurl.com/55gpv Top US airlines suffer heavy 3Q losses By Kevin Done in London Published: October 20 2004 20:04 | Last updated: October 20 2004 20:04 Three of the top four US airlines on Wednesday disclosed heavy third quarter losses underlining the parlous state of the US aviation industry. .... The US Business Travel Coalition, representing corporate travel buyers, warned last week, that there was an increasing probability that the US airline industry will experience a catastrophic failure in the next 12 months defined as two or three major network airline liquidations . _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24891 Message #24892 From: "Michael C Price" <> References: <> Subject: Hell! (.... was Immortalism, my comments) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:26:26 +0100 Mike Perry writes: > I think the prospect of such resurrections is realistic due to > certain other possibilities I consider likely, such as parallel > universes. It's important to me that a pathway to the renewal > of life exist--so the dead will have not died in vain, and all will, > one hopes, eventually enjoy eternal bliss. Overall it suggests that > life, not death, is the ultimate fate of any individual, even those > who are sure they don't want immortality--you will just have to > learn to live with it, whether you like it or not. (You will like it > in the end, however, I feel reasonably sure.) In the scientifically > engineered heaven that I imagine In the infinity diverse multiverse which you & I believe in there must be scientifically engineered hells full of boiling pitch and demons with pitchforks, "creepy-crawly things or lakes of lava". Of course we can find shaky super-rationalist based arguments, to say that the heavens must outnumber the hells (just many modern Christians prefer to believe in heaven but not hell), but hells must exist *somewhere* in this paradigm. This is one reason *not* rely on universal resurrection, but to try to live in *this* reality, forever. See you in hell, buddy. :-( Michael C Price Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24892 Message #24893 From: "Basie" <> Subject: old unaugmented biological brains Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:03:26 -0400 Don't knock your old unaugmented biological brains. It is the only kind of intelligence around. It seems that any other kind of intelligence did not make it to the future or pass. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24893 Message #24894 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:00:44 -0600 From: David <> Subject: Bill Gates? References: <> Has anyone thought of going after Bill Gates & wife as possible cryonics candidates and supporters? Surely he would like to see the state of the world in 100 years? If he publicly supported us it would arouse a lot of interest in cryonics. David Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24894 Message #24895 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:11:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Skrecky <> Subject: Cryonics in British Columbia > Message #24876 From: olaf henny <> > In Message No. 24854 Thomas Donaldson wrote in part: > "1. To Doug Skrecky: If I understand rightly, you live in Vancouver, in > Canada, in the area ruled by the only government which forbids > cryonics societies totally -- British Columbia." > > That is wrong. About two years ago the Solicitor General of British > Columbia clarified this in a letter to me. > BC companies are banned from offering cryonics services. This ban does not apply to Alcor or CI, since these are not BC companies. However this ban does effectively prevent a good quality cryopreservation in BC. Hospital staff and even funeral homes would have to prudently check with their lawyers before agreeing to aid in any cryonics case. I'm told there was such a case recently, and the results were not good. Bottom line is that any terminal patient in BC, who wishes to be cryopreserved well, has no realistic option but to get-out-of-Dodge, and travel to either Toronto, or slip across the border before expiring. There is currently no move to attempt to change Section 57. However when fully reversible cryopreservation of mammals is achieved I expect a number of us Canucks will become involved in such an attempt. The current Legislation was written assuming that such reversible cryopreservation is impossible, and thus Section 57 is unlikely to survive very long once its basic premise is falsified. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24895 Message #24896 From: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:02:21 EDT Subject: Cryonics in France A technical facility will be completed in a short time, next week I think. Some finition works will be in order for some time. A part of the activity will be to start an animal cryonics service. This is a first step to be sure. The main objective in the medium term is to build some elements of a brain reader as exposed 1.5 years ago. Yvan Bozzonetti. Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24896 End of CryoNet Digest ********************* Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=24899