X-Message-Number: 24982
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:54:22 -0500
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: CryoNet #24974 - #24980

Hi everyone!

For John de Rivaz and others: If I understand properly the situation
with yeasts discussed in Longo's theory, all of the cells involved are
clones of one another. Evolution basically tries to preserve our genone,
not our individual selves, as we all know very well. A theory discussing
just how evolution works on yeast cells says very little about how it
works on humans, whether or not it turns out to be correct.

For Yvan Bozzonetti: At least you made an effort. Here is a few more
things you might do in France without taking on the whole French 
government: first, check about just how low a temperature a refrigerator
can go in order to still qualify as a refrigerator in the eyes of the
French government. I'm NOT suggesting that you and other cryonics
sympathizers in France use low temp refrigerators for long term 
storage, but for short term storage until you can move the patients
out of France. Second, and perhaps ultimately more substantial, I
will tell you what I and a very few cryonicists (there are more now)
did in Australia as we set up a cryonics organization there:
We had all joined a US society, and clearly because of our distance
from one another and small number, we didn't expect to support 
full cryonic suspensions anytime soon. However there is a fact
about death and dying which rarely occurs in movies, novels, or
popular understanding: in about 80 % of REAL HUMAN DEATHS, that
death is predictable more than 1 week in advance. This actually means
a lot. IF you organize to help one another beforehand, then you
are likely to be able to get out of France while living (but still
dying) to be suspended elsewhere. If you're one of the unlucky
20%, then there is the low-temperature refrigerator.

Eventually there will be enough French cryonicists that you can
think about political activities. And one way to increase that 
number is to stop accepting the fatuity of your government and
do something to get as many French suspended as you can.

Finally I'll add that if you can use low temp refrigerators, then
you'll need to do much of the operation of suspension before
lowering a patient's temperature below freezing. It's also possible
to do the preliminary stages and store someone just above freezing:
removal of their blood, replacement with protective solution, etc.
This will end up taking more than the cooperation of a few 
local cryonicists. However temperatures just above freezing, plus
protective solutions, have been used for some cryonics patients
in Australia (others have gone ASAP to the US, accompanied by
at least one other person, for complete suspension in the US).

And to be a bit more specific about predictors of imminent
death: if you're dying of cancer, then you're likely to be able to
run to the US  in time, if you confront what's happening to you.
Massive strokes and heart attacks are the worst cases here
(although with them you can also find out your risks beforehand).
Many accidents which ultimately cause death of a victim don't
kill him or her immediately, but this depends a lot on the nature
of the accident.

As for the time available if a patient is refrigerated, I'm more
optimistic than you. It would be useful for all the detailed
reports which Alcor puts out, telling not just of successes
but of mistakes and foulups, were collected together for reference.
I'd say that 3 days is on the boundary, but especially if all
the patient's blood has been removed and replaced by a protective
solution, it's likely to ultimately work. One interesting report
I wrote up in the latest PERIASTRON deals with a way to revive
neurons after 3 HOURS lack of oxygen at normal temperatures. It
still needs lots of work: the paper discussed individual neurons,
not brains, but its discoveries suggest that such methods should
eventually extend to whole brains. And this was NOT low temperature,
but normal temperature in which we conduct our lives.

             Best wishes and long long life for all,

                 Thomas Donaldson

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