X-Message-Number: 25031
From: "Jappie Hoekstra" <>
Subject: Souls
Date: Saturday, 13 Nov 2004 17:04:00 +100
Hello,
In the diagram below I've tried to model some things to obtain a clear relation
between definitions. In this model the "soul" is the highest entity, not
expressed in any further human terminology.
If this diagram is screwed-up in your mailsoftware, read it here with your
browser: http://century.prophanix.net/text/souls.txt
| | |
Multiverse|Our universe| HUMAN SCOPE/CONTROL |
----------|------------|---------------------------------------------|
| | Hardware | Information |
| |-----------------|---------------------------|
Soul A---*-Identity A-*-Body Person A---*-Personality/Mem. Person A |
Soul B---*-Identity B-*-Body Person B---*-Personality/Mem. Person B |
Soul C---*-Identity C-*-Body Apple C----*-Unknown |
Soul D---*-Identity D-*-Body Apple D----*-Unknown |
Soul E---*-Identity E-*-Body Book E-----*-Human-written text |
Soul F---*-Identity F-*-Body Computer F-*-Human-written software |
| | | |
Now assume Person A is copied in it's entirely, 5 times under human
control, and the original is destroyed afterwards.
What happens now, is unknown to humanity, since the point of debate
is what happens at the connectionpoint ('-*-') between Multiverse and
Our Universe, and the connectionpoint between Our Universe and
Hardware. Religions usually concentrate on the first connectionpoint,
where your soul gets connected to an identity in a different universe
when you die in this universe ('heaven' or 'hell').
For cryonicists and minduploaders, the important connectionpoint is
the one between Our Universe and Hardware. What happens here is
beyond Human Scope, so we can only guess and believe. Among
cryonicists we actually see sub-religions, focussing on the mentioned
connectionpoint.
Tentatively, a computer-programmer probably assumes the following,
since he is using the same principle when creating software (by
trying to avoid what they call 'memory leaks'):
| | |
Multiverse|Our universe| HUMAN SCOPE/CONTROL |
----------|------------|---------------------------------------------|
| | Hardware | Information |
| |-----------------|---------------------------|
Soul A---*-Identity A-*-Remains Pers. A-*-Destroyed |
? | ? |-Body Person A---*-Personality/Mem. Person A |
? | ? |-Body Person A---*-Personality/Mem. Person A |
? | ? |-Body Person A---*-Personality/Mem. Person A |
? | ? |-Body Person A---*-Personality/Mem. Person A |
? | ? |-Body Person A---*-Personality/Mem. Person A |
| | | |
Now we have 1 dead body, and 5 alive bodies. While the 5 alive bodies
are exact replicas of the currently dead body, they might not be
'attached to the same identity in our universe' which is what Richard
B.R. is pointing out. The original identity is possibly attached to
something else, be it the dead body, or something entirely different
like an apple.
In this case, we humans have created the Hardware (a body), after or
during which our universe assigns an identity. A process which we
humans cannot know how this is done and what identity our body ends up
with.
Whether minduploading or anything similar works always boils down to
this model. We only have access to thinking and working on the human
scope, so any theory on the workings of our universe is potentially
just that -- a theory. A form of sub-religion.
What we do know, is that when you become unconscious (like sleeping),
you presumably always wake up as the same person. So not dying is
always the best one could strive for, after which comes cryonics.
Cryonics is essentially just a long sleep, in which your identity and/or
soul are not reassigned to someone or something else (likely).
Minduploading on the other hand is much more dangerous, since you can
only make a very wild guess on what identity the new body ends up with.
Tentatively, I would assume Richard B.R. is right, and minduploading
should be avoided, since it's human technology far below the scope of
what we're trying to achieve. The new "person" might actually end up
without a soul, or any form of qualia. It might have an apple-identity
inside a living human body.
The likelyhood of a 'splitting soul' which gets attached to multiple
identities, or a 'splitting identity' which gets attached to multiple
bodies, is very far-from-home. Just because we humans create a copy
of something does not make the universe decide to give that copy we
would like to have the same identity, assign this exact identity.
--
Jappie Hoekstra
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25031