X-Message-Number: 25063 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:05:07 -0500 From: Francois <> Subject: Soul, qualia, , uploading, identity It is really worth examining the concept of identity because it is very important to the whole cryonic experiment. Lets say that I volunteer for an experimental duplication procedure. The procedure in question must be performed while I'm under general anasthesia, so I won't be aware of it. I lie down on an operating table and I'm "put under". When I wake up, I'm in a hospital bed. There is a second bed in the room, with someone who looks exactly like me who is also waking up. We look at each other. Then what? Well, there are two individuals in the room, lets call them A and B. The copying procedure is exact, so all the physical characteristics of the two individuals are the same, down to the atomic level. One of the scientists who conducted the experiment enters the room and asks individual A for his name. Individual A answers that his name is Francois. Then, the scientist asks the same question to individual B. He also answers that his name is Francois. There are in fact only two people in the room, the scientist and Francois. Obviously, what individual A feels is not shared by individual B. If the scientists pricks individual A's hand with a needle, individual B will not feel it. A and B cannot read each other minds and each has different memories of what happened after they woke up. They however have the same memories of what happened before. If they are not told which one physically walked into the lab to undergo the duplication procedure ans which one is the result of that procedure, they will never be able to decide which one is which. This is an extremely bizarre concept. Effectively, Francois exists in individual A's location as well as individual B's. Both subjectively experience continuity of identity with the pre-duplication Francois. If either A or B were to die at this point, Francois would continue to live as the surviving individual. If we now consider the qualia aspect, would Francois truly exist in both A and B, or would we end up with two distinct qualia experiencers. One really important factor is that it would be impossible for A and B to find any difference in the way they subjectively perceive qualia, however deep their investigations would go. Separate brains, yet same qualia. The only true difference would be in the fact the individual A lies in one bed while individual B lies in another. It would certainly make a difference in what each individual perceives of the world, but not in who does the perceiving. Francois The Devil fears those who learn more than those who pray Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25063