X-Message-Number: 25065
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 04:42:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Christine Gaspar <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #25051 - #25063

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Dear Richard: I realize that I have only read some of the messages recently 
posted regarding the soul, and so do not have the clearest picture of the whole 
conversation, but upon reading your message, below, I am compelled to offer an 
opinion / and perhaps a question...


You state your estimate on the odds of the soul surviving freezing, and provide 
numbers. Now I only pose this question / comment in my sincere interest in 
knowing your thoughts on this- not as an attempt to be hostile.. I do not 
understand how you can quantify the odds of a soul surviving if the concept of 
soul is not quantifiable. In order to suggest the odds of something taking place
you would need to identify what that is first. The numbers you provide 
therefore can only be a wild guess. If we discuss the concept of soul as our 
innate experience and sense of continuity of self, derived from a complex blob 
of neural tissue, rather than an entity independent of biology, then the answer 
can be easily boiled down to the preservation of structure and chemistry of 
brain matter. You have no evidence, as you cannot gaze into a crystal ball, that
those that are currently in suspension are irretrieveable. As a timeline, the 
future is pretty much infinite, and the potential for intelligent

 life to continue to progress in a manner to allow scientific progress to 
 evolve, is favourable. So long as structure is preserved, who is to say that 
 there will *never* be a future technology that can successfully resuscitate 
 those that are currently in suspension?

In fact, who is to say, given current theories in physics, and given enough 
time, that time travel into the past won't one day be possible, and that even 
those that weren't frozen won't be able to be retrieved. (ok the last comment is
outside of cryonics dialogue). 


My point is that I feel that it is disturbing and arrogant, in my opinion, that 
so many people deem that just because something is impossible based on current 
knowledge and technology, that it will *always* remain an impossibility. It is 
almost cliche that so many of our current medical and scientific marvels were 
once deemed impossible too. Personally, based on what I know about medicine, and
what I know about cryonics, I think that our chances are very good. And I can 
assure you that this is not just deluded wishful thinking.

Christine Gaspar


Message #25056
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:53:55 -0800
Subject: Clarification to Donald
From: 

Dear Donald,

Just to be clear, I think the odds of the soul surviving freezing 
are less than 0.01%, and the odds of the soul surviving current 
vitrification protocols are less than 5% (under optimum conditions).
I'm hoping another 10 years, maybe 20, will increase these odds 
significantly.

However I hestitate to say this, because I know many people on 
Cryonet either know people who were frozen/vitrified, or plan to be 
frozen themselves (due to lack of choice or funds for vitrification)

Clearly, many recent Alcor/CI cases have zero chance. A delay of 6 
hours would be catastrophic for brain integrity, but these recent 
delays are in some cases orders of magnitude greater. I can 
understand why they are frozen, but it is a symbolic gesture at 
best. Hopefully it can provide some income to the organizations.

Best Regards,

Richard B. R.




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