X-Message-Number: 25088 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:39:36 -0800 Subject: Cryonics and the Qualia Experiencer From: <> Dear Francois: "It seems to me that the qualia experiencer hypothesis is the death knell of any cryonics effort. However well a process to preserve a brain works, however perfectly its structure is preserved, even if it is down to the atomic level, a brain sitting in liquid nitrogen displays no activity at all. It percieves no qualia, there is NO functioning qualia experiencer within it." I have never claimed that continuous, uninterrupted experience of qualia is necessary for personal survival. I claimed the continuous, uninterrupted existence of the *qualia experiencer* was necessary for survival. At the most fundamental level, we are the qualia experiencer---we are most certainly not the experience of qualia. Distinguish between the two. The experience of qualia may stop and resume, as it does every night, or as it does during anaesthesia or during cryonics. Personal survival is assured as long as the qualia experiencer continues to exist. You wrote: "The person this brain belonged to is DEAD. Any process used to restart brain functions, however perfectly it worked, would only start a new qualia experiencer," As the qualia experiencer is not a process, but an actual physical thing, there is no way to 'start a new qualia experiencer'. Your criticisms do not apply to my view of the soul. [snip] You wrote: "A copy identical to the original IS the original. A perfect copying process does not result in an original and a copy, it results in two originals." Redefining the word 'original' cannot help you. Even a perfect copy is still a copy---it is not the same thing as what it was copied from. If it were the same thing, then it would share all of its properties, and it would be yet another name for that thing, as in 2 + 2 = 4. This has been called 'numerical identity'. If you copy a thing, it is not numerically identical to the original thing, even though its atomic arrangement may be the same. [snip] You wrote: "They must disappear in one plank interval and reappear in the next. That's a mind boggling concept don't you agree, the fact the whole universe is completely destroyed and recreated trillions upon trillions upon trillions of times every second, you and I included?" This is absurd. I have majored in mathematical physics and am widely read in the subject. No one who is not insane proposes the universe pops into and out of existence trillions of times a second. You are inventing this to help your position. This may give you comfort, but it cannot alter reality. [snip] Best Regards, Richard B. R. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25088