X-Message-Number: 2515 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 12:41:35 MST From: "Richard Schroeppel" <> Subject: CRYONICS Infighting & other issues Infighting: I'm not thrilled about the apparent disorganization in the cryonics ranks, but I'm much less thrilled by the suggestion that the infighting & squabbles be kept private, or off the list. I don't need to see every last barb & insult, but I'm much happier knowing the true situation than some sanitized version. "Brutal Honesty" (tm M.Darwin?) is the correct policy. The last thing you want is to read in the morning paper that your cryonics organization is bankrupt: Better to have name-calling, accusations, and suspicious audits years before. I don't follow the .POLITICS subgroup, but I felt the news of the impending Alcor split was not properly played up in the main group. I don't have the information, but it would be nice for some neutral insider :-) to do an analysis of the "real" reasons for the current disorganization. I'm imagining a discussion in terms of whose interests are being served, and how the various parties see their interests. "Interests" includes not only money, but reputation, and other factors. I'll mention my dislike of secret financial arrangements: I have no objection if CryoMaybe wants to offer cheap freezer space on the speculation that their business will grow & then they make some money, but I want to know if it's a loss leader, and have other arrangements in place if CryoMaybe's credit line is called in. Several cryoorgs have been less than forthcoming on this score: I argue that, like a pension plan, we need full disclosure. I don't object to people making a profit - but I sure want to know if they are taking a loss. --------- Freedom of Discussion (Flamebait): The Cryonics insiders exhibit a regrettable tendency to try to stifle discussion of alternative preservation methods. Mike Darwin's recent response to Skrecky's article is more restrained, but the intent is clear: After a reasoned discussion of what he thinks is wrong with Skrecky's proposal, Darwin proposes he should shut up, and that anyone publishing his stuff is irreponsible. Mike, is there some forum where we can discuss our ideas without offending you, or wasting your valuable time responding to our claptrap? Perhaps Kevin could set up another mailing list, for ideas-not-approved-by-Mike-Darwin-and-Tom-Donaldson? Presumably it should be one that doesn't reach Darwin, Donaldson, Hixon, Henson, Harris, Wowk, and all the other people who are sooo weary of explaining to us the errors of our ways. They don't need new ideas from outsiders anyway; DDHHHWco will think up whatever's necessary, since they have the most experience. Obviously such a forum should be restricted, so that the public not become confused as to what's the right and wrong way to do cryonics. Kevin? --------- The Need for Research: When Platt asked for comments about the proposed split, I sent my list & suggested he circulate it. That list noted that the proposed set of cryoorgs had no provision for research. It's still true, as TD has shouted to the rooftops. TD is concerned with damage assessment, while my own concern is that we have no program for revival research. There's just a warm fuzzy murmur that "nanotechnology will fix it". My own belief is that the bits are there, but we have only the barest clue about how to build the tape drive. To my knowledge, Merkle is the only cryo-person doing nanotech research, and he can't do it alone. Now that the various cryo-functions have been subdivided and spun off, and each is individually accounted & paid for, we face the question of "How to pay for something that's hard to recover the value from?" that always occurs when discussing research. Like the situation with ATT funding Bell Labs, when there was one monolithic organization, it made sense for it to fund some research. Now we have a bunch of companies, all concerned with paying enough attention to the bottom line to at least stay afloat, and none can afford what amounts to a charitable contribution. The idea of cryonics only makes sense if there is a research program to go along with it. How do we fund the program? My suggestion is a required donation from each member of a cryoorg, maybe one-time, up-front. But we'd need agreement from a bunch of people who are mad at each other to implement even this, and it's hardly a Libertarian solution. Also, Darwin is the most likely candidate to run the research, and a lot of people don't seem to like him. There is a lot of disagreement about research directions, and insufficient money to try them all; issues of control will pop up immediately. Rich Schroeppel Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2515