X-Message-Number: 25231 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:08:07 -0500 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #25220 - #25230 For RBR and Bob Ettinger: Circular arguments rotate in place and fail to fly. 1. A record of someone isn't the same as that someone. But if we're going to talk about QEs, then of course the record will also tell about the QE. So when we recreate someone according to the record, we recreate their QE also. Turning into a record is a change of physical form --- and note that records usually aren't just mental constructions, they have a physical form. For RBR, when you spoke about records you seem not to have noticed this difference. I will add that I assumed that the record was EXACT. It's that factor which makes preservation as a record very very difficult as a practical matter. As I've said before, I agree with Robert Ettinger and even RBR not because I think they are right about QE's, but because the operations necessary to make a valid record of someone are currently far beyond what we can now do. 2. Yes, I raised the possibility of discontinuities in our existence, either because of quantum mechanical possibilities or simply a hiatus. To simply state that this causes your continuation to fail is a circular argument. WHY SHOULD IT? No logic (but perhaps only laws of nature) prevents you from blinking out of existence on 26 January 2005 and blinking back into existence on 26 January 2105. Why does this mean that your QE must change, or does it? 3. Exactly what you mean when you discuss the separation of identities that happens when your corpus callosum is cut (either literally or with some kind of temporary local anesthetic) wasn't clear at all to me. As I understand what happens, cutting the CC basically creates 2 identities, of which only one has much ability at all to express itself verbally. But the other one is still a different identity. I don't believe either of you answered the question resulting from this: does that create ANOTHER QE, or do they somehow have the same QE? The same may be said about conditions in which people seem to adopt two or more different personalities. And note that there's no discontinuity in the latter conditions, and for the first, if it isn't a surgical cut of the CC but done by anesthetic, then there's no discontinuity either. Can we have many QEs or only one? For RBR: an argument which pours scorn on an opponent without really answering the questions he/she raises is a weak argument indeed. If anything, it is an argument for the opposition. Best wishes and long long life for all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25231