X-Message-Number: 25231
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:08:07 -0500
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: CryoNet #25220 - #25230

For RBR and Bob Ettinger:

Circular arguments rotate in place and fail to fly.

1. A record of someone isn't the same as that someone. But if we're
going to talk about QEs, then of course the record will also tell
about the QE. So when we recreate someone according to the record,
we recreate their QE also. Turning into a record is a change of 
physical form --- and note that records usually aren't just mental
constructions, they have a physical form. For RBR, when you spoke
about records you seem not to have noticed this difference.

I will add that I assumed that the record was EXACT. It's that 
factor which makes preservation as a record very very difficult
as a practical matter. As I've said before, I agree with Robert 
Ettinger and even RBR not because I think they are right about 
QE's, but because the operations necessary to make a valid record
of someone are currently far beyond what we can now do.

2. Yes, I raised the possibility of discontinuities in our existence,
either because of quantum mechanical possibilities or simply a
hiatus. To simply state that this causes your continuation to
fail is a circular argument. WHY SHOULD IT? No logic (but perhaps
only laws of nature) prevents you from blinking out of existence
on 26 January 2005 and blinking back into existence on 26 January
2105. Why does this mean that your QE must change, or does it?

3. Exactly what you mean when you discuss the separation of 
identities that happens when your corpus callosum is cut (either
literally or with some kind of temporary local anesthetic) wasn't
clear at all to me. As I understand what happens, cutting the CC
basically creates 2 identities, of which only one has much ability
at all to express itself verbally. But the other one is still a
different identity. I don't believe either of you answered the
question resulting from this: does that create ANOTHER QE, or
do they somehow have the same QE? The same may be said about
conditions in which people seem to adopt two or more different
personalities.

And note that there's no discontinuity in the latter conditions,
and for the first, if it isn't a surgical cut of the CC but done
by anesthetic, then there's no discontinuity either. Can we have
many QEs or only one?

For RBR: an argument which pours scorn on an opponent without 
really answering the questions he/she raises is a weak argument
indeed. If anything, it is an argument for the opposition.

              Best wishes and long long life for all,

                 Thomas Donaldson

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