X-Message-Number: 25336 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:43:14 -0800 Subject: My Views, to Francois From: <> Dear Francois: You wrote: "Wow, this is really fascinating stuff. You gave a number of good counter arguments to my own. However, I suppose you will not be surprised when I tell you that my opinion has not been changed. I am still completely satisfied that a good enough duplication or uploading procedure will result in personal survival." Then why not duplicate yourself while you are awake? Then you can clearly see, your subjective inner life does not transfer to the duplicate. I would advise you to look at my more sophisticated argument to Thomas, the one which postulates you are duplicated when frozen, and then you and your duplicate are separated by vast distances. Clearly, in both our views, if you do not kill yourself, you live on in the original, but according to the patternist, if you kill yourself, your subjective inner life continues in the duplicate. Since subjectivity is localized (if you smash your brain you do not experience, which implies subjectivity is localized to your brain), you can see this implies instantaneous transfer of some metaphysical 'stuff' from one brain to the other, across millions of light years. This seems to be fantastical (and I mean this in a bad way). You wrote: "I think the key divergence between our conclusions comes from how we understand the subjective perception of our sense of self. Subjectively, we generally perceive ourselves as being situated inside our skulls, about midway between our temples, with some variations from individual to individual. Our 'persons' and sense of identity seem to reside there. We can call this the center of awareness and the qualia experiencer would responsible for it's existence. It is obvious to me that you consider this subjective perception to be the very core of our sense of self. Everything we perceive is being referenced to that center, and no other. Everything others perceive is being referenced to their own centers. Since what a duplicate of you would perceive could never be referenced to your center of awareness, but would instead always be referenced to its own center of awareness, it follows that a duplicate, however perfect, can never be you." This is a fair summary of my views (though you may not understand me exactly, but we shall see). A few other notes that may aid your responses: 1. Subjectivity is localized to somewhere within the boundaries your skull (e.g. when you smash your brain, you no longer experience). 2. Experience is something that happens to a brain. In particular, your experience is something that happens to *your* brain. Therefore, if *your* brain is destroyed, your experience can no longer happen. 3. A radioactive isotope can no longer decay when it is destroyed, by virtue of the fact that it no longer exists! Similarly, your brain can no longer experience when it is destroyed, because it doesn't exist. 4. Your inner life is merely the experience of your brain. Therefore, when that brain is destroyed, your inner life can happen no more. 5. A physical system can't change (i.e. experience, in the case of systems so capable) if it doesn't exist. Therefore, your brain can't experience unless it exists. Unless you think you are more than your brain, this implies you can't experience unless your brain exists. [snip] Best Regards, Richard B. R. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25336