X-Message-Number: 25355 From: Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:54:04 EST Subject: tats Mike Perry writes in part: >as you suggest, [survival through a duplicate is] a matter of >definition, [but patternism reflects] a good choice of definition, however, to my mind. But you patternists have not, as far as I can see, explicated or justified your criteria for a definition--and, worse than that, you tend to confuse analysis with definition. One more time. The patternist claims that the "person" is defined by his material configuration, and if several configurations differ significantly only in location, all of them "are" the "same" person, in different "instantiations," and if one is destroyed he nevertheless "should" be considered to have survived, so long as at least one duplicate remains. Again, this is just an assertion or definition or expression of personal preference. It is not a logical conclusion from agreed premises. It requires, but does not justify, a radical change in viewpoint. As a practical matter, Mike's view is probably mostly harmless, although some may be seduced into passivity or complacency if they take it seriously. But there will be some of those latter. Also, I think Mike overestimates the likelihood of the multiverse being factual. Plenty of the leading thinkers disagree, and believe hidden variables will be found. One hint is in the existence of phenomenological quantons such as phonons and several others. They act like quantons, but result primarily from classical wave phenomena. I have never seen an explanation of a mechanism for interference between quantons in different "universes." Any mechanism that involves waves seems to imply the existence of some substrate, something that can wave, a form of hidden variables. Incidentally, Thomas Donaldson also manufactures definitions, saying (as I read him) that a brain is continuous if it is subjectively so. You "continue" if you "awaken" with no sense of hiatus, even if an outside observer saw you destroyed and then later reconstructed far away. As far as I can see, that's just playing with language. It implies, among other things, that if you were constructed one minute ago, complete with false memories of a non-existent past, then you would be "continuing" something, even though there was nothing to continue. (In fact, one of Thomas' short stories includes something along these lines, with partially implanted memories.) Robert Ettinger Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25355