X-Message-Number: 25455 From: Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:45:09 EST Subject: information without objects RBR seems to reject Platonism, but even though Plato lived about 2,500 years ago, some of his views are still debated and maintained by some respectable people. Can information or relationships exist without physical manifestation? It's an unsettled question, and it would be just foolish for anyone to claim to know the answer. The most obvious case concerns numbers. Can they exist in the abstract? Many would say, obviously yes. Numbers (integers) have qualities, and relationships to each other, independent of any particular examples or instantiations. (This is part of the motivation for the patternists.) The universe is "physical" (whatever that means), but nevertheless there is reality in the relationships between numbers. If there is a multiverse, could a universe exist in which it was not true that 2 + 3 = 5? Many would doubt that possibility, which would seem to imply that arithmetic is more "real" than matter or the laws of physics. As Dr. Haftka says, we'll probably know more in 3005. Robert Ettinger Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25455