X-Message-Number: 25501 From: Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:55:30 EST Subject: authenticity etc. Mike Perry again says that a bunch of newly created duplicates would share a past, and thus each would count as survival of the original if that original had been destroyed at the same time. He also reminds us of the need to be precise in language. Mike rarely says anything clearly wrong, and the worst you can say about his choices is that perhaps they aren't the most appropriate or useful. I think there is relevance here in the following thought experiment, which I have mentioned before: Consider a system which is very similar to you and your immediate environment--not as you are now, but as you might become after (say) a century, given life extension. However, assume that this system appeared in the remote past (and maybe another galaxy), not the present or future or nearby. There are some obvious puzzles or contradictions: This past "you" remembers your present and even your decades-ahead future, so in some sense you are its predecessor and it is (was?) your continuer and survivor. Yet in another sense its "past" is not authentic, since in the real past of its environment it did not exist. Also, you would doubtless feel uncomfortable in staking your survival on something already long gone. None of that proves anything much, except to reinforce the need for caution in making claims. RBR insists on his own use of language, writing for example: >A standing wave cannot exist, not now and not ever. >Therefore, by your definition of 'I', I never exist. There is no >potential existence because there is never *any* existence. This not only rejects ordinary use of language, but also rejects out of hand the many possibilities currently envisaged about the nature of matter, space, and time, including unresolved questions of neoPlatonism. RBR also says the Schrodinger equation doesn't postulate anything, but is merely a model for the measurement process. This view is sometimes called "instrumentalism"--which means that a theory is only a means of making predictions, as opposed to being an "explanation" of a phenomenon. But many scientists and philosophers insist that instrumentalism is unsatisfactory, or in vulgar language, chickenshit. A decent theory should not just predict, but explain. After all, the Ptolemaic theory of the solar system was just as good in prediction as the Copernican--in fact better, for a while--and only fell down in ontology. We cannot turn our backs on ontology--at least not without risk of a boot in the rear. RBR sometimes accuses others--perhaps in some cases correctly--of wishful thinking. But I think he is also partly guilty of this, the wish in his case being to reach a clear and definitive conclusion when the evidence is still far from complete. Robert Ettinger Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25501