X-Message-Number: 2552 Date: 13 Jan 94 21:37:42 EST From: Mike Darwin <> Subject: CRYONICS Response to Ben Best and others To Ben Best: I did not say, and do not think Skrecky is an idiot. No one who can read scientific papers and write coherently (both of which he can do) is an idiot. I said he posted a lot of (to be charitable) half-baked ideas. That is all. To Mr. Van Sickle: I've TRIED to turn cryonics in to a religion. Trouble is, no one would believe that *I* was God! Apparently you have to be a grade A horse's ass (HA), beat their children (sleeping with their kids if they're at least teenage seems to help too), take ALL their money, *and* CONSTANTLY say nasty and degrading things to them. I apparently made it only as a grade B HA. However, I've resolved to try HARDER this time (no more Mr. Nice Guy). Certainly, the people at Alcor have reassured me that I have real aptitude in some of these areas. I just need to achieve a higher level of performance and extend my range. (By the way, there are still many entry-level positions available: join now and work your way to the top!) On a more serious note: Your observations about peoples' resistance to cryonics are very cogent and you are to be congratulated. I also agree with you about the likely reaction people will have to being offered immortality. However, keep in mind that this NOT what I am setting out to do. People will take suspended animation and imperfect cryopreservation (as an offshoot) NOT to live forever, but to live longer. This technology will probably be used first on dying children and dying young adults. Indeed, 30% of all of Alcor suspensions since the start of the AIDS epedemic have been AIDS patients (mostly young). And a larger fraction still of their last-minute cases (i.e., already terminal) have been AIDS cases. This will be more so for perfected (or nearly so) suspended animation. I knew most of the last minute HIV cases and I can state fairly unequivocally that what they wanted wasn't so much Immortality (big "I") but to NOT DIE. Frankly, Immortality doesn't even seem REAL to me anymore personally. Mostly what *I* am looking for is not to die when I don't want to. Immortality is a little overwheming even to me and I've been staring it in the eye longer than most of you! (I've kind of arrived at where Alcoholics Anonymous has: One Day At A Time. In fact, I'm thinking of starting a self-help group called Immortalists Anonymous). What I'm saying here is simple really: Don't make the mistake of extrapolating to extremes. Don't try to sell people an interstellar cruiser when all they want or are ready for is a cheap, reliable car to go to work and play in. If you can get them that far, human desire will take care of the rest. One of the most valuable things I learned was something a teacher said to me in what I thought was a throwaway class in high school called Business Law. He had us make a list of EVERYTHING we wanted that would satisfy us. Then he asked us what we would do if we got all those things! Naturally, we could think of MORE things. That is the nature of people: they are creatures of UNLIMITED desires with LIMITED resources, and this was drives the whole economy, makes the world go 'round, etc. People will go after Immortality and with vengence. But they will do it *one step at a time*. By way of example, believe me when I say that the heart surgeons who pioneered cardiac transplanation NEVER imagined they would see their colleagues putting donor hearts in 65 year old guys (this was supposed to be a technology to give life to the young (and cheated!). Ditto the fertility experts who are clucking away (to my great amusement) about their SOB colleague who worked *their* magic on a 62-year-old woman (hell 50 years ago most women were DEAD at that age not becoming first-time moms). Such is ever the case with people and medicine, or with people and ANYTHING they want. And believe me, there is no shortage of people who want to stay alive. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2552