X-Message-Number: 25532 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:43:18 -0600 From: Jeff Dee <> Subject: Re: More of the Duplicates Paradox References: <> I hope you guys don't mind me cutting in; I've made my peace with the "duplicates paradox", and it looks like I don't agree with either of you ;-) Richard B. R. wrote: > 1. Suppose I fall asleep, am destructively scanned, and two > duplicates of me are created, one looking at the sun, and the other > looking at the moon. While you may be able to say, neither one of > them remains me for very long (as you said in your last message), > you still have yet to answer the question, when I fall asleep, and > wake up, what do I see? The moon or the sun? I cannot possibly see > both. > The correct answer to this question is that I will see neither, > because I was destroyed. However, I would like you to answer this > question in your own view, and provide a justification for your > answer. I submit that the "correct answer" to this is like the "correct answer" to the question, "when does a person's life begin?". There are so many different criteria which can reasonably be applied that there is no single objectively "correct" answer. With the question, "when does a person's life begin", the best we've been able to come up with is a legal definition that satisfies enough people to keep it on the books. I think the resolution to this dilemma, assuming we ever actually have to face it, will be something like that. > 2. Imagine someone making a duplicate of you while you are awake. > The duplication process takes only 1 hour. After the duplicate is > made, you talk with him for a few hours, recounting childhood > memories, and then take him to dinner and a movie. Then, after you > have concluded your day, I come to you, take out my pocket knife > and plunge it into your chest repeatedly, until your writhing body > moves no more. > Here is my question for you: assuming I let your duplicate live, > would you consider the survival of your duplicate to be your own > survival? From my perspective, the thing we're really trying to decide when we discuss this paradox is, "who gets what rights"? I tend to agree with you that, under this scenario, the physical original is likely to get legal status as the actual original. That is to say, the physical original will probably be the one that gets the car, the kids, the marriage, the job, and so on. At the same time, I'm pretty sure our society will recognize the duplicate as *a* person, entitled to all the same basic human rights. But that's not what you're really getting at. Why should Mike have any *particular* interest in the fate of his original, since (given his claim that they are in fact identical), the death of either one is not a loss? I have two responses to this. First, I disagree with your basic premise that duplicate things are necessarily expendable. Do you own two of anything that are (for all practical purposes) identical? I have two effectively identical Dilbert mugs. Does that mean I shouldn't mind at all if you took a sledgehammer to one of them? Of course not. Second, our tendency to see extra value in friends and loved ones - the people we know we have things in common with, and who we feel we can rely on, is well known. I submit that this would automatically extend to duplicates who we know for a fact share all of our likes and dislikes. So even if a duplicate isn't *legally* me, I don't want either of us killed because a) we're human beings with rights, b) it would be a completely pointless waste of something that has value, and c) we're the closest allies we could ever hope to have. At least for a while. > The survival of the > duplicate cannot be considered your survival in any useful way. That depends on how one defines "useful". Most people seem to like the idea of doing or creating something in their lifetime that will contine after they're gone. Of course if I have the option, I'd rather not go in the first place. But given a choice between leaving behind a statue or a book or even an organization for others to remember me by, or leaving behind a duplicate to carry on my actual work, I'd definitely prefer the duplicate. -Jeff Dee Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25532