X-Message-Number: 25579 From: Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:43:12 EST Subject: more on potential etc. I think Richard B.R. and others may not have given close enough attention to potentiality vs. actuality. RBR's position I believe goes something like this: "You survive as long as your brain is capable of sustaining qualia, even if none are present at the moment, e.g. in cryostasis. If your brain is damaged so it cannot sustain qualia, then you are destroyed, and can never be "restored" because a repaired brain, or any duplicate, would be another person and not the original." Look again at "life" vs. potential life. Bacteria have been cultured after millions of years of dormancy in antarctic ice. While frozen, were they alive or only potentially alive? It is plausible to say they were alive, if we are willing to concede "life" without ongoing function, because all it took to renew function was a small change in the environment--warm them up. (Some say there are reptiles and amphibians that can freeze rock solid over an Arctic winter and survive.) Similarly, if all it takes to restore consciousness to a cryonics patient is to warm him up, then it may be plausible to say the patient was "alive" all the while. RBR would say the patient survived. (I would say the patient was not alive while frozen, but nevertheless there was some overlap between his predecessors and continuers, hence survival at least in part.) However, suppose it takes a little more than warming. Suppose the patient needs an electric shock or a chemical stimulant or intravenous support to get the heart going or even brain waves. He might also need more extensive repair. Without that help he isn't going to wake up--he is damaged and could reasonably be said to have only potential existence--or potential life or function, if RBR objects to the word "existence." But if you go that far, it is again difficult to see where you can draw a line. Does it take only a little damage to "destroy" a person? And if a little damage won't destroy you, why would a lot? I think we have to settle for the quantitative solution. It isn't either/or, but rather it is how much--except for qualia. Qualia (probably) either are present or not, which means you are either alive (existent in my terminology) or not--with one big BUT. The "but" is the extension or spread or overlap in matter, space, and time. In particular, past and present and future have variable overlaps, not necessarily small ones, as Yvan Bozzonetti has pointed out--quantum uncertainties in time can even be centuries or eons in some (not necessarily relevant) c ases, and there are also non-quantum possibilities. Robert Ettinger Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25579