X-Message-Number: 25581 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:01:22 -0500 From: Francois <> Subject: To Richard, about duplicates and other things First, a little bit of whimsy >Let's say we want to see if an apple we place on the countertop >survives until the next day, and is not replaced by some other >apple while we sleep. How do we do this? We place a video camera on >the apple, so we can check it in the morning. If we see it is not >replaced by another apple, then we are justified in concluding it >is the same apple. You cannot reach that conclusion from that experiment. A video camera takes 25 images (or is it 30?) every second. The apple could be replaced during an interval between exposures and you would never know it. Ok, so this is only half serious, but it does illustrate limitations in what we can know about apples, minds and the world in general. Now, concerning the duplicates facing the moon or the sun when they wake up. Lets say I am the one being duplicated and you are the one conducting the duplication. Lets call the duplicates Francois A and Francois B From your point of view, you will see two people looking pretty much identical waking up. Francois A will report that his name is Francois, that he feels fine, that he made it through the procedure unscathed and that what he is looking at is the sun. Francois B will also report that his name is Francois, that he made it through the procedure unscathed and that he is looking at the moon. No big surprise here. From the point of view of Francois A, he wakes up and thinks "great, I'm still the same Francois, I'm ok, everything worked like I expected, and look at that, I'm facing the sun." From the point of view of Francois B, he wakes up and thinks "perfect, everything worked just fine, I'm still good old Francois just as before, and I'm the one facing the moon." No magic, no mysticism, no Platonism. Now, allow me to quote this from you: >IF subjectivity is localized to your skull, then it would have to >transfer at faster than light speeds from the skull of the original >to the skull of the duplicate. And that's just it. Subjectivity is localized where a hunk of matter assembled in a certain way is localized. If a second hunk of matter assembled in a closely enough similar way is located somewhere else, there will also be a subjectivity localized at that other place. It doesn't have to transfer, it's already there. Nothing else is needed. Those conditions are sufficient for personal survival through duplication to be realized. The only thing left to determine is how similar the assembly of the second hunk of matter has to be the assembly of the first one to be "similar enough". Francois The Devil fears those who learn more than those who pray Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25581