X-Message-Number: 25597 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:58:10 -0800 Subject: To Francois, Again From: <> Dear Francois: "You cannot reach that conclusion from that experiment. A video camera takes 25 images (or is it 30?) every second. The apple could be replaced during an interval between exposures and you would never know it. Ok, so this is only half serious, but it does illustrate limitations in what we can know about apples, minds and the world in general." Don't be absurd. Do you reject all of science and the scientific method? [snip] You wrote: "No magic, no mysticism, no Platonism." Of course both Francois A and Francois B will think they are the original. Did you think I was confused on that issue? We are not talking about what Francois A or B feels when they wake up. I am asking, if you are the original Francois, what do YOU see when you wake up. If you do not wake up, duplication is useless for personal survival, and if you DO wake up, you will see the moon, or the sun, but not both. So what do you see??? [snip] You wrote: "If a second hunk of matter assembled in a closely enough similar way is located somewhere else, there will also be a subjectivity localized at that other place." Actually, it doesn't even have to be assembled in a similar way. As long as it's a brain, there WILL be a subjectivity localized at that place. Which is fine and dandy if all you care about is A subjectivity. But I do not care about the existence of A subjectivity, if that subjectivity is not MINE. I care about MY subjectivity. MY subjectivity is localized to this location, inside my skull. While there may exist A subjectivity in a duplicate, located far away from me, it is not MY subjectivity, even if it is LIKE mine. You wrote: "It doesn't have to transfer, it's already there." On the contrary, A subjectivity exists there. But it is not MINE. MINE is the one in THIS location, and if you wish to assert that MY subjectivity, which occurs in THIS location, suddenly occurs in my duplicates location as soon as I am killed, then you must postulate the magical hop, and the universal mechanism of hopping, and then prove to me that both exist. Good luck. Best Regards, Richard B. R. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=25597