X-Message-Number: 25613
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:42:33 -0500
From: Francois <>
Subject: Final reply to Richard about duplicates

>Don't be absurd. Do you reject all of science and the scientific
>method?

Of course I don't. I'm just saying that you must carefully determine what
kind of instrument will in fact measure the thing you want to measure. If
you want to ascertain that the apple in the morning is the one you put on
the table the previous evening, then you need an instrument that will keep a
continuous vigil, not one who takes snapshots every 30th of a second and
ignores what goes on between those moments. And again, this was said more
in jest than anything else.

>Of course both Francois A and Francois B will think they are the
>original. Did you think I was confused on that issue?

No, I didn't think that. Nor am I confused on what you mean when you ask if
I see the sun or the moon when I wake up. If Francois A is the original who
was duplicated, then I see the sun. If Francois B is the original, then I
see the moon, and if both are copies of an original who was destructively
duplicated, then I see neither because I'm dead.

Does what I have just said mean that I have suddenly changed my mind and now
agree with you? No, because all three will sincerely view themselves as
Francois with the same unshakable degree of conviction that I'm experiencing
right now. Francois A and Francois B don't just superficially think they are
the original, like they would if they had simply been brainwashed into it.
They have all the memories, the feelings, the dreams, the wants, the needs,
the very sense of identity, all of what makes up the person called Francois.
Nobody could tell them apart if they weren't told which is which. A telepath
reading their minds could not tell them apart if he wasn't told which is
which. Francois, Francois A and Francois B themselves couldn't tell each
other apart if the duplication was done while Francois was unconcious and if
they weren't told which is which. Finally and most importantly, their sense
of having existed prior to the time of duplication will also be the same,
even though it will will only be physically true for the original Francois.
That degree of similarity, ascertained both from objective external points
of view and subjective internal ones perfectly satisfies me concerning my
continued survival through duplication.

Understand that I'm not suggesting the three Francois share their
counciousness, that a single center of awareness is somehow looking at the
world throught all three pairs of eyes at the same time. Each Francois is
independently looking at the world from his own center of awareness, just
like I'm looking at it from my center of awareness and you are looking at it
from yours. But just like destroying a specific copy of a book does not
destroy 'the book', as long as at least one physical instance of Francois
exists,  be it the original one or any of his copies, then 'Francois'
survives.

That being said, I feel there is really no point in continuing the debate. I
understand very well your position, I just don't agree with it. You
apparently understand my position as well, you just don't agree with it
either. This indicates that neither of us has the empirical evidence needed
to decide which of the two positions is the correct one, or even if either
is correct. How could we since nobody has ever been duplicated? The needed
experiments have not been conducted yet. They will have to await the
invention of much better technology than what we have now.


Francois
The Devil fears those who learn more
than those who pray

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