X-Message-Number: 25838
From: "Kitty Antonik Wakfer" <>
Subject: RE: More About The Cryonics Society (Part 1)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:20:39 -0700

David Pascal's message with his frequent repetitive and wordy paragraphs
have resulted in my entire message totalling 31K. Because of CryoNet's
limitation to 20k (otherwise exclusion from the daily digest), I have broken
my message into 2 sections. Part 1 is below with Part 2 separately
immediately following (unless someone beats into the queue).

> Message #25822
> From: "David Pascal" <>
> Subject: More About The Cryonics Society
> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:57:19 -0500
>
> I'd like to thank Kitty Wakfer for being kind enough to call the new
> Cryonics Society web site at www.CryonicsSociety.org professionally
> produced, smoothly designed, and impressive.

To have the intent of my words altered by David Pascal somehow does not
surprise me. While I did refer to "the very smoothly designed website" (in
hindsight, "slick" would have been a better word) as well as the promotional
message in which the word "we" was used throughout, without clearly naming
to for whom that stood, and I also referred to it as a "professionally
produced website",  *I* did not call the new Cryonics Society website
impressive. But perhaps Matic/Pascal missed that the "impressive" (quotes in
my original), was actually a referral to an earlier poster who gushed about
the site, "having been very impressed" without ever questioning the
considerable amount of missing information that is essential to any
thoughtful evaluation of such a website.

>  Hopefully more people will
> visit the site as a result.  I'd also like to thank her for giving me an
> opportunity to talk some more about the Cryonics Society.

The full details of the "Cryonics Society" should be part of its website
from the onset and not require being questioned on CryoNet. That's what
being forthright is all about.

>
> To answer her questions directly:
>
> >> Who is the "we" referred to in the posted promotional message
> and at the
> very smoothly designed website? Is it Nick Pavlica and David Pascal, both
> listed as founders and "professional communications consultants" somewhat
> buried near the bottom of the page entitled, "I Already Belong To
> A Cryonics
> Organization. Why Should I Join The Cryonics Society Too?"
> http://www.cryonicssociety.org/1st_cryomember.html<<
>
> Formal statements from CS are usually reviewed by more than one
> officer, and
> that's why 'we' is sometimes used.  The writer is speaking as on behalf of
> CS, not as a private individual.  Further information about Nick and David
> follows below.

Only individuals think, evaluate, compose and all the other actions
performed, physical and mental - not organizations. If Pascal/Matic and Nick
Pavlica have jointly authored the contents of the "Cryonics Society"
website, then they should so state. If it is the work only of Pascal/Matic
then that should be made clear. There is no thinking and acting entity
"Cryonics Society" - nor the same for  Alcor or CI, either - just the
executive officer(s) who acts in the name of the particular organization.
(How much the "members" of such organizations agree and support such actions
varies widely depending on the actions taken *and* a particular member's
evaluation. In fact, unless a person who has contracted for the services of
CI or Alcor or any other organization clearly specifies differently to the
organization, that organization should not imply or represent to others
anything more than that such a person - or the total number of such
persons - has contracted for the organization's services. In no manner,
should the organization assume to *represent* the contractee unless
specifically authorized to do so.)

>
> >> What type of organization is the "Cryonics Society"? (By "type", I mean
> its structural and legal form: corporation, partnership, sole
> proprietorship, LLC, for-profit, not-for-profit, trust,
> charitable, etc. <<
>
> The Cryonics Society was legally registered and officially filed
> as a DBA in
> Rochester, New York, USA, in 2004.

This means that some person (Pascal/Matic?) has listed himself as "doing
business as the Cryonics Society" with the local registrar of businesses in
Rochester New York (and perhaps been required to locally publish that
statement) - which gains him a form which enables him to get a bank account.
Pascal/Matic has not stated if this "DBA" is a sole proprietorship (in which
case it is little different, legally, than a personal account) or if it was
registered as a partnership (with Nick Pavlica?) (in which case the partners
have joint control of the bank account and liability for the company's
debts). All that is now known, is that "The Cryonics Society" is currently a
sole proprietorship, or at most a partnership arrangement although the
principals of that locally registered company are still unknown.
Pascal/Matic also snipped my reference to a "membership-based organization"
(quote from the website) which a DBA generally is not, and certainly is not
unless it has a specific set of by-laws about members and their role in the
organization.

>  The status is somewhat transitional,
> however, in that there is still discussion going on as to whether the
> Cryonics Society should formally incorporate as a US-based non-profit, or
> one that is not based in the US, or as one that operates along more
> traditional business lines.  US-based non-profits may be required
> to release
> the names of major contributors to the government, and CS feels this could
> threaten member confidentiality, among other undesirable restrictions and
> conditions of nonprofit incorporation.

While I am the first to disagree with any government restrictions placed on
any businesses, I also think that it is entirely reasonable and even prudent
for any person desiring to contribute to an organization to want to know who
are its major backers (and therefore *influencers* of activities and
positions).

> CS's status in this regard, incidentally, has been publicly
> available online
> on page two of the CS web site's FAQ for a while now. The notice will be
> updated when organizational decisions are finalized.

The now seen very last question under the second category of questions,
"Common First-Time Questioners for Visitors", is totally in the wrong place
(I have to wonder if it was even there 3 days ago as I did not see it at
all):
"What is the Cryonics Society's Nonprofit Status?"  The answers to this
question belong right up-front under "What is the Cryonics Society". Again,
that's an essential part of being forthright.

>
> >> Who are the officers, other than the "Public Relations Director", David
> Pascal, mentioned only as such on a 3/12/05 entry of the News blog at the
> same website? <<
>
> The officers at the moment are Nick Pavlica, Director; and David Pascal,
> Public Relations Director.  We also have another candidate for
> Director whom
> we think will be very well received by the cryonics community, but we're
> still in the discussion stage.  We hope to make an announcement shortly.

The names of the Directors and Officers of this organization are not listed
on the website as they should be - and prominently so they can easily be
reviewed.
In addition, a membership organization will have a Board of Directors and a
set of Officers, at least: President/CEO, Secretary, Treasurer (some may be
combined).

>
> I should add that CS is already in the process of producing a page on its
> web site with information about officers.  However, we're also in the
> process of designing and executing a further pro-cryonics mailing
> to 25,000
> people, and that is taking up our time at the present moment.

Is this an electronic mailing? "[M]ailing" should be specified as postal or
electronic since there is a considerable difference in preparation time and
cost between the two. Mailing lists are easily bought, so how are the people
being selected? What are the criteria being used?

>
> >> Where are its specific goals <<
>
> I believe the Society's goals are stated succinctly on several CS site
> pages.  But to quote directly from the web site FAQ:
>
> "To inform the public honestly and fairly; to advocate and raise funds for
> sound scientific research; to raise public understanding and support; to
> provide accurate information to journalists, news agencies, doctors,
> hospitals, and care givers; to help direct members to legitimate and
> qualified providers of cryonics treatment services; and to assist people
> seeking hope for themselves and their loved ones -- these are the goals of
> the Cryonics Society."

These are marketing words and are not specific as to methods. In addition,
the major existing cryonics providers do all these (or is Pascal/Matic
implying that these organizations are *not* currently "inform[ing] the
public honestly and fairly" and "provid[ing] accurate information to
journalists, news agencies, doctors, hospitals, and care givers"?) and
therefore without more detail all this appears redundant duplication of
effort, by less knowledgeable individuals - who may even do more harm than
good.

Specifically, in regard to "rais[ing] funds for sound scientific research",
the organizations performing such research would be the better ones to do
such fund raising - the "Cryonics Society" would merely be a middleman
absorbing funds raised for the expenses of its operations. Alcor and CI
already do research to which individuals can and do contribute. Although one
cannot purchase shares in 21CM (except those already owned by others) anyone
can contribute to its research by making a pure gift to 21CM or a tax
deductible donation to the Life Extension Foundation - which has always
guaranteed that 100% of what is donated will go to research.
In addition, with respect to the "sound scientific research", who is to
decide whether or not it is sound? Certainly neither Pascal/Matic nor
Pavlica have any experience, knowledge or credentials for making such a
decision. For that matter how do they expect to "advocate ... for sound
scientific research" without understanding what constitutes such research?

The same remarks as for research apply to "raise public understanding and
support". Why does Pascal/Matic think that the "Cryonics Society" (he and
Pavlica, and maybe the new Director "still in the discussion stage") can
succeed better than all others before?

With respect to "help direct members to legitimate and qualified providers
of cryonics treatment services", although that is a laudable goal that I
have thought would be a useful goal of some joint but independent cryonics
marketing (and perhaps standards) organization for some time now, again,
there is the question of experience, knowledge and credibility of those who
would do the "directing".

>
> >> Who is receiving (and responding to) the emails and "feedback" sent to
> it? <<
>
> The emails and feedback are received by the Cryonics Society at
> www.CryonicsSociety.org.  Most replies are written and sent by
> myself, David
> Pascal, though often with input from others, and with prior approval.

I am interpreting this to mean that Pascal/Matic has prior permission from
Nick Pavlica (the current only "other") to answer most replies. And if
Pascal/Matic does not answer some, then does Nick Pavlica answer the
remainder? I would hope that in either case, replies are signed with the
name of the person replying instead of a faceless "The Cryonics Society".

>
> >> What is done with the yearly "membership" fees at the various "levels"?
> <<
>
> Currently, all -- one hundred percent -- of revenues from
> contributions and
> memberships go to fund Cryonics Society outreach efforts. All future fund
> raising efforts will clearly specify what percentage of donations are
> allocated to where.

And will all income and expenditures (including the nature of the "outreach
efforts") of this "membership-based organization" be made public?
But once again, why does Pascal/Matic and Pavlica think that their outreach
efforts will be more successful than the many and continuing efforts of all
the current organizations and other individuals? Why should donors not send
their money to these existing organization prompting them to continue the
same efforts which they have been doing (and have developed materials for
already) or even offering to fund and contribute work toward new different
efforts? What is "The Cryonics Society" going to do that is so new and
different and will not maybe cause trouble for cryonics through lack of
experience of the many pitfalls that will be encountered?

>
> >> (For that matter, what is the identity of the receiver of the
> monies from
> PayPal (and "all major credit cards accepted")<<
>
> The identity of the receiver is Cryonics Society, which is to say, the
> Society itself.  Funds are placed in the Cryonics Society company account,
> not in a personal account.

Not quite. Since as stated above, "Cryonics Society was legally registered
and officially filed as a DBA in Rochester New York", then Matic/Pascal is
the sole owner (possibly in partnership with Nick Pavlica, though his
residence in Canada makes this doubtful) of the "Cryonics Society". Unless
someone else is added to the account as having account privileges,
Matic/Pascal has the sole control over the funds placed in this company
account.

>
> >> how do they get placed into a Cryonics Society bank account, as opposed
> to someone's personal bank account.)<<
>
> All checks are deposited to the Cryonics Society account, not to
> a person or
> individual. Members can verify this by the CS endorsement on the reverse
> side of their processed checks.  Funds sent to Paypal are automatically
> entered into the Cryonics Society account at Paypal.

My above comments apply to these statements also. And rubber stamps for
check endorsement will have whatever the account owner has arranged - it
gives no information as to who is controlling the funds in the account.

>
> >>What say do "members" have in the operations of this "society"?<<
>
> Members can contact the Society whenever they please and give
> whatever input
> they wish.  Suggestions are welcome and actively solicited.  All
> input from
> members goes directly to one or more of the Directors and is given due
> consideration.

This is hardly more "say" than individuals have in interacting with most
other individuals, whether representing groups or companies, even many
for-profit ones. This does not describe a membership society, which would
have bylaws and procedures for electing officers and voting on actions to be
taken not agreed to be assigned to the executive officers.

>
> >>While a professionally produced website by advertising/marketing
> consultants (Pascal/Matic and Pavlica) can be "impressive" on the surface,
> without the information that is missing it is a shell without the
> substance
> necessary to assess and judge. It is people who perform
> activities and it is
> they who need to be known and assessed on knowledge,
> forthrightness and past
> record before being considered worthy of receiving funds from others and
> trusted for new and/or continued endeavors, no matter how desirable the
> subject of the promises.<<
>
> My own background in cryonics can be briefly stated.  I - David Pascal -
> joined the Cryonics Institute in 1998.  I served briefly as a
> Director, and,
> after a few years of unpaid volunteer effort, I joined the staff
> formally as
> Public Relations and Member Relations Coordinator, in which position I
> served till early 2004.  At that point I turned to marketing other clients
> in New York. Though I'm not Canadian, I often visit Toronto and am also a
> member of the Cryonics Society of Canada.  It's there that I met Nick
> Pavlica.
>
> I have published articles in The Immortalist, where I am listed as a
> Contributing Editor.  I've also written material for Alcor's Cryonics
> magazine, Longevity Report, and other publications familiar to cryonics
> readers. I've given talks on cryonics to people and before the media.  I
> designed the web site for the Cryonics Society of Canada.  As one of the
> organizers of the CryoSummit, I met and welcomed many of the principal
> figures in Alcor, ACS, and Suspended Animation. I think it is reasonably
> safe to say that I am known to people in the cryonics movement and am
> considered by some to have contributed something of value to it.
>
> Regarding 'Rudi Matic' -- when not working to advance the cause
> of cryonics,
> I am a professional writer and copywriter, and like many others
> in the field
> I have a pen name that I use occasionally.  That pen name is a formally
> established business, with legally registered DBA status.  I use David
> Pascal when dealing with cryonics matters because that name is
> better known,
> and more likely to gain favorable attention for my cryonics efforts.

Interesting and still confusing - does this mean that "Rudi Matic" is the
pen name of "David Pascal" or the other way around. Or are they both pen
names of some other identity. Maybe Pascal/Matic should get his identities
straight, though. http://davidpascal.com very specifically describes David
Pascal as a person working in business writing, marketing and web design
though with photographs that are probably 15 years old. (If the photos are
more recent, Pascal could use some serious work on diet/exercise as his
current appearance shows considerable age deterioration from those phots :-)
If "David Pascal" is the cryonics supporting pen name of Rudi Matic who is a
"professional writer and copywriter", then he has indeed misled readers
either here at CryoNet (above) or on the named website - or both. In fact,
it is not even possible to fully verify the degrees attributed to David
Pascal at the davidpascal.com website since the full name of institutions
are not given nor the years. (The University of the State of New York has
numerous campuses each with their own record keeping.) But then if David
Pascal is a "pen name" for Rudi Matic, then the degrees awarded to and the
work history cited would have been for Rudi Matic, would they not? However,
a Google search on "Rudi Matic" turns up only his "contributions" to a
magazine put out by David Pascal and a few hits for a social computing club
and another German language group (which may be someone else entirely).

Then there is also "Rudy Matic" who has authored a message on CryoNet in
2000 (#14319) and referred to by others (including Robert Ettinger), in
addition to numerous messages by David Pascal since 1999. This Rudy also
shows up for hits in the same magazine as "Rudi Matic" and even in a
3/10/2003 BetterHumans article, "My First Cryonics Case",  by Ben Best:
"Rudy Matic (who works under the name David Pascal -- a paid employee of CI
and an ardent activist) joined me."

So one can be rightfully confused as to the identity of David Pascal/Rudi
Matic/Rudy Matic. This is most definitely a lack of clarity and
forthrightness, if not an attempt to confuse and/or deceive.

[....contd' in Part 2]


**Kitty Antonik Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting

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