X-Message-Number: 25839
From: "Kitty Antonik Wakfer" <>
Subject: RE: More About The Cryonics Society (Part 2)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:23:01 -0700

David Pascal's message with his frequent repetitive and wordy paragraphs has
resulted in my entire message totalling 31K. Because of CryoNet's limitation
to 20k (otherwise exclusion from the daily digest), I have broken my message
into 2 sections. Part 2 is below with Part 1 separately immediately
preceding (unless someone beat me into the queue).

[cont'd from Part 1]

>
> As for Nick Pavlica, he is a very respected marketing consultant,
> businessman, publisher and publishing consultant with extensive and
> successful experience. He has also been involved in many pro bono efforts
> for scientific, environmental and humanitarian organizations and a
> significant contributor to many worthwhile causes, (including the Cryonics
> Society). Nick is a member of Alcor, the Cryonics Institute and a
> member of,
> and a contributor to, the Cryonics Society of Canada.
>
> I'd like to say again, incidentally, that although we do have
> plans to post
> further information about officers on the CS web site, and although we do
> appreciate Kitty's invitation to further introduce the leadership of the
> Cryonics Society, at the moment we have other priorities. The Cryonics
> Society has already put together and sent a mailing to 10,000 people, and
> currently we're working hard to put together a new mailing to 25,000 more.
> We hope to launch the mailing next month, and while highlighting the
> personal accomplishments of CS officers is pleasing to those involved, it
> takes time away from our current effort, which is, to get more positive
> messages about cryonics before the public.

Forthrightness on the facts of the "Cryonics Society" and the chief
individuals involved as it attempts to "inform the public honestly and
fairly" continues to be missing, as can be seen by my insertions above. Such
information, as part of the first lengthy informative piece by an
organization's organizer - and at  its website, is *not* superfluous, unless
the originator specifically wants nothing more than included puffery. "[T]o
get more positive messages about cryonics before the public" requires far
more than a slick website and marketing experience; it requires complete
disclosure about the workings of such an organization and especially the
people in the forefront since they are the ones doing the "workings".  And
in addition, "positive messages" are in the eyes of the readers of those
messages no matter how "positive" the message creators might evaluate them.
What was the specific text of the message to the 10,000 and what is planned
for the 25,000 and again, what convinces Pascal/Matic that readers will find
his message more "positive" than the messages of those before by others? And
again, where were the first 10,000 and new 25,000 people culled from? Lists
of names can be easily bought And once again, are these emails or postal
mailings? It seems to me that all Pascal/Matic is saying is: "Trust us, we
know what we are doing, just give us your money, let us get on with it, and
you (and we) will be saved all the worry and bother!"

>
> I think it would be more helpful for everyone to just look at what the
> Society is actually doing, rather than discussing personalities, and ask
> themselves, "Do I want more people to hear something positive about
> cryonics?  Do I want an organization out there actively working to
> discourage negative news stories about cryonics?  Would I like to see an
> organization actively trying to get more members and supporters
> and research funds for Alcor, CI, and other cryonics organizations?"

Again Pascal/Matic appears to be implying that the current cryonics
organizations and individuals promoting cryonics do not "want more people to
hear something positive about cryonics" and are not "out there actively
working to discourage negative news stories about cryonics" and "actively
trying to get more members and supporters and research funds". These goals
are certainly laudable and any added efforts would be great if there was any
reasonable detail about just what "the Society is actually doing". Until
there is such detail so that cryonicists can make a reasonably informed
decision that such "doing" is actually valuable (and not possibly harmful)
for their interests, why should any sensible person give the "Cryonics
Society" (Pascal/Matic) any of his/her money? Until such detail is provided,
what and who is *behind* the "Cryonics Society" is extremely important. All
sorts of encouragingly smooth words can be produced by experienced marketers
in an effort to sell anything in the name of any company or "society". It is
however, the credibility of the people who are actually formulating those
words that need to be evaluated for their sincerity, honesty and ability to
carry out.
And again, how would this "Society" propose to determine to distribute the
"research funds" to "Alcor, CI and other cryonics organizations" anyway? And
why should anyone want to dilute his funding or his decision for its
direction by donating through "The Cryonics Society" rather than directly to
the research organizations in the ways that I outlined before.

>
> If the answer is yes, then the logical thing to do is support the Cryonics
> Society by becoming a member or making a donation.  There's a
> great deal of
> talk in the cryonics community.  The Cryonics Society is doing something,
> and we can do more -- if everyone helps.

That's right - as I said above "just trust me and 'I'll do ya' real proud'."
To date, "The Cryonics Society" - that is Matic/Pascal - has not convinced
me that "membership" is a value worth obtaining nor that the organization is
worth supporting.  (My current evaluation of Nick Pavlica rests mainly on
his association with Pascal/Matic, since I know little more about him than
that he has contributed a fair amount of money to pay for equipment for the
Cryonics Society of Canada, and also what is available about him from a
Google search.) The stated goals of the "society" are ones most of those
supporting cryonics would like to see. However, I have no desire to see
Pascal/Matic, or anyone else who is not completely forthright, "speak for"
cryonicists by way of a "Cryonics Society", or any other way. And although I
have no way to stop them doing so, I can speak out to try to discourage
others from supporting such efforts until such time as those behind the
efforts have produced plans and texts that show clearly that they know what
they are doing and that their efforts will help cryonics without harming it.

Oh yes, there is a great deal of "talk in the cryonics community". And there
have also been in the past serious attempts at action by a small number of
people who invested enormous amounts of their own time *and* money into
making scientific headway in cryopreservation only to have their efforts
towards specific goals torpedoed in words and actions by some others and
then condemned in retrospect by still more.

>
> A sense of proportion helps too.  Membership in the Cryonics
> Society starts
> at only twenty dollars.  Twenty dollars will buy a replacement ink
> cartridge, or a frappuccinno and a sandwich at Starbucks.  It's
> not a whole lot.

This is irrelevant as to whether *any* money or confidence should be
entrusted to an individual (or group) who has not been forthright in the
information needed to determine personal credibility. (Remember, it is the
*people* who do the speaking and acting - not some "society".) In addition,
there are other greater money amount levels - one for $50 yearly and even a
$1000 "Gold Level Patron Membership" - getting further and further away from
that meaningless comparisons that only a marketer would use so easily. And
we're talking actual $$ here, not even pledges for a limited specific
research goal to be paid upon the accumulation of a certain pledge total
actually reached.

>
> Concern about fiscal rectitude is appropriate, but I believe we've shown a
> readiness to address those concerns.  Let's be reasonable, then.  The
> Cryonics Society is making serious efforts to reach people and help the
> cause of cryonics, and they need everyone's support to reach more.  I've
> paid to join, and I've donated, and I wish every reader would consider
> joining and donating too.  Twenty dollars is not much to risk -- and there
> is so very much to gain.

Again this appears to imply that the other organizations are *not* "making
serious efforts to reach people and help the cause of cryonics". Perhaps
their leaders and supporters should make responses to these rather critical
implications that Pascal/Matic keeps making.
I note also that "The Cryonics Society" is suddenly "they" that "need
everyone's support" rather than "we" as formerly. Such misrepresentative
twists of pronouns when appropriate are another frequent but misleading
(deceitful?) marketing ploy.

The questions being raised about "The Cryonics Society" - really the persons
who are using this name - are legitimate and should have been provided in
the initial introduction of that organization on CryoNet, but even first at
its own website. Not to do so can only raise more questions as to why they
were not? And who is David Pascal/Rudi Matic/Rudy Matic??  Why should anyone
have any more trust and confidence in him and his ability to "get the
message out" about cryonics (without harm to it) than the individuals
managing Alcor, CI or any new cryonics provider? And does "getting the
message out" in these days of the Internet require the monies that are being
required and urged ($20, $50, $1000 yearly by who knows how many people)?

There are real improvements that can be made in the area of cryopreservation
science, accurate general information and service providers, but I do not
see the Rudi Matic/David Pascal/Rudy Matic "doing business as 'The Cryonics
Society' " as a means towards them. The points I have brought forth here
should spur others to question whether they really think the "Cryonics
Society" under its current directorship and with the insufficient and
misleading information and goals should be greeted with enthusiasm or with
reservation. Cryonics does not need questionable "spokesmen" and
organizations "speaking for" cryonicists and actual cryonics providers,
stating they are "making serious efforts to reach people and help the cause
of cryonics, and that they need everyone's support to reach more", so
"twenty dollars is not too much to risk". The words are easy to write and
can, for those not accustomed to evaluating credibility, even be persuasive.

I suggest that requests for clear definite information be made about "the
Cryonics Society" and its Public Relations Director, David Pascal - repeated
if necessary until satisfactory answers are forthcoming. Until then I will
be very wary of David Pascal/Rudy Matic/Rudi Matic and any organization in
which he has a significant role.


>
> - David Pascal
>   Public Relations Director
>   The Cryonics Society
>   www.CryonicsSociety.org


**Kitty Antonik Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
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