X-Message-Number: 26098 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: A storage facility in France? Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:30:55 +0100 > What is the minimum surface [ie area] for a storage facility? I would guess about 200 sq m, but ideally more. I think what some cryonics service providers have done is to have a larger building and then rent out a bit of it until needed, but this depends on the freedom allowed to landlords by lawyers and politicians to get rid of tenants when they want the space. Headroom is important to lift people in and out of dewars. I seem to recall a figure of 14 feet being mentioned somewhere. (4, 1/2 metres approx) A more serious objection to your proposal is the hostility of the French authorities to cryopreservation. The history of French law as relating to the good of the individual versus the good of the state is not encouraging. (Napoleon and Petain must have left influences, both on the statute book and the work methods of public officials). However the European Union's universal human rights ideas may help. Incidentally, has there been any resolution of the Martinot case, which I think went to the European Court of Human Rights? Also I think it is fanciful to expect people to travel from all over Europe for training sessions. Trying to do the same thing within the UK has proved difficult enough. http://www.cryonics.uk.com/ And then can people really leave their jobs at a moment's notice for a real cryopreservation? The people who do transports from Albin's have this is as their job, so there is no question of abandoning another activity to do it. If they are not doing a cryonics transport, they are earning money for their enterprise by performing regular burials or cremations. Of course if there was enough money to keep people paid on standby (and gainfully employed on something else that earns the enterprise money when they are not cryopreserving the two or three people a year that need it) then it would work - provided again that you can get people able to do the job and willing to move to near the facility. Siting the facility in a desirable area may encourage people to go and live there, but of course property prices would be higher. As I remember it, early cryonics facilities were in cheap run down areas where no one would want to live, and were run by their owners using very crude freezing methods. Anyone reading cryonet will have seen announcements concerning the CI SA agreement. http://www.cryonics.org/SA/Suspended_Animation.html It will be interesting to see how this works out in the USA over the next few years. In theory I cannot see why SA could not be employed to cryopreserve and deliver patients to a European storage facility, and this would answer many of the logistical problems I have mentioned (having people available etc.) However the likely costs would be difficult for many of the European cryonics people, and of course there is there are the delays, costs and uncertainties involved with the SA team making the flight from Florida. The problem always remains that there are few people serious about cryonics and they are too diffuse -- they live too far apart. But a facility within Europe must attract a few people who are concerned about transport to, and storage in, the USA. Someone will do it sometime, but it won't be easy. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more > Message #26097 > From: > Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 02:39:52 EDT > Subject: Re: CryoNet #26084 other countries > > I think a solution would be to build cryostats and do the training in France > where there is a facility ready to use and limit the UK to a simple garage > sized site. When there will be more money, a larger facility could be built. > Nobody has a 50 sq. meter backyard surface for a prefabricated shelter? > > Yvan Bozzonetti. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26098