X-Message-Number: 26098
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: A storage facility in France?
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:30:55 +0100

> What is the minimum surface [ie area] for a storage facility?

I would guess about 200 sq m, but ideally more. I think what some cryonics
service providers have done is to have a larger building and then rent out a
bit of it until needed, but this depends on the freedom allowed to landlords
by lawyers and politicians to get rid of tenants when they want the space.

Headroom is important to lift people in and out of dewars. I seem to recall
a figure of 14 feet being mentioned somewhere. (4, 1/2 metres approx)

A more serious objection to your proposal is the hostility of the French
authorities to cryopreservation. The history of French law as relating to
the good of the individual versus the good of the state is not encouraging.
(Napoleon and Petain must have left influences, both on the statute book and
the work methods of public officials). However the European Union's
universal human rights ideas may help. Incidentally, has there been any
resolution of the Martinot case, which I think went to the European Court of
Human Rights?

Also I think it is fanciful to expect people to travel from all over Europe
for training sessions. Trying to do the same thing within the UK has proved
difficult enough. http://www.cryonics.uk.com/ And then can people really
leave their jobs at a moment's notice for a real cryopreservation? The
people who do transports from Albin's have this is as their job, so there is
no question of abandoning another activity to do it. If they are not doing a
cryonics transport, they are earning money for their enterprise by
performing regular burials or cremations.

Of course if there was enough money to keep people paid on standby (and
gainfully employed on something else that earns the enterprise money when
they are not cryopreserving the two or three people a year that need it)
then it would work - provided again that you can get people able to do the
job and willing to move to near the facility. Siting the facility in a
desirable area may encourage people to go and live there, but of course
property prices would be higher. As I remember it, early cryonics facilities
were in cheap run down areas where no one would want to live, and were run
by their owners using very crude freezing methods.

Anyone reading cryonet will have seen announcements concerning the CI SA
agreement. http://www.cryonics.org/SA/Suspended_Animation.html It will be
interesting to see how this works out in the USA over the next few years. In
theory I cannot see why SA could not be employed to cryopreserve and deliver
patients to a European storage facility, and this would answer many of the
logistical problems I have mentioned (having people available etc.) However
the likely costs would be difficult for many of the European cryonics
people, and of course there is there are the delays, costs and uncertainties
involved with the SA team making the flight from Florida.

The problem always remains that there are few people serious about cryonics
and they are too diffuse -- they live too far apart. But a facility within
Europe must attract a few people who are concerned about transport  to, and
storage in, the USA. Someone will do it sometime, but it won't be easy.

Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and

> Message #26097
> From: 
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 02:39:52 EDT
> Subject: Re: CryoNet #26084  other countries

> I think a solution would be to build cryostats and do the training in
> where there is a facility ready to use and limit the UK to a simple garage
> sized site. When there will be more money, a larger facility could be
> Nobody has a 50 sq. meter backyard surface for a prefabricated shelter?
> Yvan Bozzonetti.

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