X-Message-Number: 2611 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: SCI.CRYONICS Re: Problem with Cryonics Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 21:58:11 -0800 (PST) Hi! I want to first reiterate the comments of the two cryonicists Freeman and Smyth about the question of skin preservation. The major problem with these patients had nothing to do with skin; there were large cracks running through their body. Apparently similar large cracks develop in the brain. I was personally present at the autopsy of the BODY of one such patient, a woman who had died of liver cancer and whose head was removed by Jerry Leaf and Mike Darwin for storage. This examination of the body was one of the very few occasions in which we got to see what our techniques --- or at least the closely related techniques of another society, did to any human organs. I believe that the results of using some of the older suspension solutions on animals have also been looked at with special reference to their brains. Large cracks existed in their brains, too. I personally don't feel that LARGE cracks are much of a problem at all: our anatomy has enough in common that we can easily figure out how to put brains back together on that scale. The real problem, as Freeman mentioned, is working out how to put together brains on a smaller scale. Regardless of the tools we use (which must allow us to manipulate many cells individually at the same time) we will also need a great deal more understanding of the microscopic (nanoscopic?) operation of nerve cells in terms of memory than we now have. The notion of operating on many cells at the same time should NOT be thought of as a far-out, future development at all. There is work going on right now to modify the immune cells of patients, inject them back into the patient, and let them multiply as a treatment for diseases, inborn or acquired. Use of viruses is not just for genetic engineering of new creatures: it is right now being tried experimentally to fix the genetics of people suffering from cystic fibrosis --- cell by cell. I will say, though, that repair of freezing injury will definitely require much more advanced tools. Drexler's book suffers too much from a concentration on only one kind of nanotechnology to the exclusion of others. In terms of understanding how our understanding is growing on many fronts at once, I'd suggest that you try reading NATURE and SCIENCE for a year or two. GREAT MAMBO CHICKEN, though it certainly MENTIONS cryonicists, is very far from an accurate and careful exposition of either cryonics ideas or the accomplishments of cryonicists. To be concerned about damage to skin, when considered in the light of what we know we must accomplish to bring anyone back, looks quite quite ridiculous. To mention it at all does not reflect well on the under- standing of the author of GREAT MAMBO CHICKEN.... or perhaps what he thinks of his audience. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2611