X-Message-Number: 26176 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Skrecky <> Subject: permafrost burial Message #26172 From: Keith Henson <> > Cryoprotectives would not help because they would keep things liquid and > moving around even worse than straight freezing. It has been kicked > around for many years, but a combination of chemical fixation and > natural cold storage just might be enough. > I hate to throw a wet blanket on this notion. However I have examined alternatives to cryonics for a number of years, and even visited Yelowknife in the NorthWestern Territories in Canada to examine one supposed permafrost burial site, which turned out not to be even permafrost. I've come to some reluctant conclusions. In an era of global warming, and as a practical matter a "permafrost burial" would likely be subject to freezing and thawing cycles. This damage would in time eliminate any possibility of revival. Complete mummification would not be just highly desirable, but instead might be essential for permafrost burial to constitute a credible alternative to cryonics. Playing the devil's advocate, lets assume that that the particular patch of permafrost selected for burial never does melt. At high sub-zero temperatures ice crystals will still grow and melt in response to minor temperature fluctuations. Eventually tissue viability will be eliminated at any storage temperature above the tissue's glass transition temperature. Permafrost is simply too warm to adequately preserve tissue for long periods. Still playing the devils advocate, lets assume that enough cryoprotectant is included to prevent freezing from ever occurring. No damage from ice crystals can ever occur since these never exist. Unfortunately hydrolysis of chemically preserved specimens has been examined in some research papers. Lipids are destroyed within a few decades, DNA and RNA are reduced to pieces in a few months to years. Only some protein structures seem to last for any appreciable length of time. There is extreme doubt that any trace of memory or personality could long endure even theoretically in chemically preserved brain tissue that is hydrated. Like cryonics, permafrost burial can serve as a credible long term preservation option only if the tissue is stored below its glass transition temperature. At permafrost temperatures complete removal of all water would be required to achieve this. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26176