X-Message-Number: 26391 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Ethics of Immortality Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:16:39 +0100 > Cryonics won't make peace with a religion unless cryonics happens to > be consistent with the core tenets of the religion. If the religion > says that getting to Heaven is good, and the only way there is through > proper observance of the religion, then there's no room for compromise > there. There is no compromise needed here. Religions usually say that hastening your own end to get to heaven sooner is such a terrible sin that if you were to try you'd be admitted to the "other place" instead. The fact that most people in the developed world have heard of the concept of cryonics one way or another means that most people know that the option exists, in the same way that they know doctors exist. I would imagine that most local ministers of religion would point out to their flocks that it is their religious duty to keep themselves in good health for as long as possible as part of their duties to their neighbours. If they are in good health, then they can do God's work in looking after their neighbours. The same can be extended to cryonics -- if they get cryopreserved and then reanimated, they can continue God's work in looking after their neighbours. I would say that the existence of cryonics is a test that every religious person is facing. If he rejects it, and arrives at the "awful day of judgement" he could be told that he has sinned by not valuing the gift of life and using the facilities that God has provided to enable him to continue God's work in the world. Remember that God is the omnipotent being, and cryonics would not exist (and certainly not work) if he had not intended it to be so. One of the points of conflict between religion and cryonics could be that cryonicists are seen as a group of people each of whom has the sole objective of saving their own life. If on the other hand the group could present itself as one which seeks to save live generally, then maybe this would help. This is of course extremely difficult, as the whole world likes the ideal concept of medical care being available at the point of need and work out the cost later. (Even in the UK this is not strictly true. People are not rationed on the basis of whether they can pay personally, but on random criteria, such as on what days of the year they fall ill or how near a hospital they are when they fall ill, or how busy the doctors are in the hospital.) The early days of cryonics have shown the harsh reality of economics -- try to offer "humane" care for everyone and count the cost later, and the group quickly collapses. The harsh realities of the world make it necessary for cryonics service providers to have an order of priorities, and every action has to pass down the list. If any action risks one level, then it cannot be executed. 1. patients in storage 2. members signed up with correct arrangements 3. members signed up with arrangement incomplete 4. members 5. prospective members alive 6. prospective members proposed post mortem 7. people who are just curious and may be members one day Risks to religions are less well defined. They do not have people in their care who are as helpless and dependant as cryonics patients. The one thing that does help is the fact that some cryonics organisations are continually investigating preservation methods that are lower in cost and easier to provide for those with large families dependant on few earners, or single people with little earning capacity. There is the problem that it is regarded by some as unethical to offer something that is even less likely to work than a state of the art cryopreservation, but to paraphrase the words of Thomas Donaldson, "Should we force that person to face annihilation because some cheap process is very unlikely to work." -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26391