X-Message-Number: 26393
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:33:00 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: on 2 comments on Cryonet 25/6/05

Comments on various messages in the 25 Jun Cryonet:

First, to Tim Freeman:

Religions may or may not be "memes", whatever that means, but we still
must explain why people adopt them. They cannot exist independently
of believers. For that reason the explanation that people seek 
religion because they don't want to die remains very pertinent. Whether
it's true for ALL present religions raises a relevant question.
I will be careful here, because I am not myself a Jew nor did I actually
meet Jews until I'd reached my teens, but if I understand Judaism
(I may not --- and anyone reading this is welcome to correct me)
it does not contain any promise of immortality for believers. I
would say the same of Hinduism (and Hindus reading this might 
also correct me). What this means is that religion can and does
sometimes appeal to our desire for immortality --- but not always.

In my science fiction book TALES OF SKASTOWE, all of the characters
are virtually immortal, but an extensively changed version of 
Catholicism still has followers. Not a majority, but Christianity
is a certain sense still continues. (No crosses at all, attendants
at a Christmas service have forgotten whom Christ was completely,
but there is still a special Song, and a form of communion, too). The
rites of a service, including a sermon, survived long after the
arrival of immortality, but almost none of the "essential" beliefs.

Whether we can convince ANY devout Christian of the merits of
cryonics remains an open question. I don't intend to do so, but 
perhaps founding a religion with weekly services, singing, and
all the rest would reach such people.

To Mark Negative:

It's interesting here to consider what happened in countries 
deprived of oil. South Africa, for instance, before it gave up
apartheid, made its gasoline from coal. Yes, that made gasoline
much more expensive, but then no one in South Africa could buy
oil on the world market.

If the loss of oil happened suddenly, then it would certainly 
cause lots of unpleasantness. In that I even agree. Yet a lot
depends on how fast that loss occurs. We're presently not 
prepared to use the many alternatives, so that if the loss
happens slowly enough we'll simply end up using an alternative
for oil, of which there are many. There are even right now 
companies that can make oil from oil shales (mined but not
taken from a well) at prices close to the older prices before
the present surge in price began. See what happens if the
price of oil remains as high as it is now.

The world, and even its prosperity, will not vanish at all just
because some formerly common commodity becomes rare. As individuals
and for cryonics, we must keep in mind the possibility of
recessions or depressions. One more problem we must deal with
to reach immortality --- and perhaps not even close to the
most serious problems.

            Best wishes and long long life to all,

                Thomas Donaldson

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