X-Message-Number: 26393 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:33:00 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: on 2 comments on Cryonet 25/6/05 Comments on various messages in the 25 Jun Cryonet: First, to Tim Freeman: Religions may or may not be "memes", whatever that means, but we still must explain why people adopt them. They cannot exist independently of believers. For that reason the explanation that people seek religion because they don't want to die remains very pertinent. Whether it's true for ALL present religions raises a relevant question. I will be careful here, because I am not myself a Jew nor did I actually meet Jews until I'd reached my teens, but if I understand Judaism (I may not --- and anyone reading this is welcome to correct me) it does not contain any promise of immortality for believers. I would say the same of Hinduism (and Hindus reading this might also correct me). What this means is that religion can and does sometimes appeal to our desire for immortality --- but not always. In my science fiction book TALES OF SKASTOWE, all of the characters are virtually immortal, but an extensively changed version of Catholicism still has followers. Not a majority, but Christianity is a certain sense still continues. (No crosses at all, attendants at a Christmas service have forgotten whom Christ was completely, but there is still a special Song, and a form of communion, too). The rites of a service, including a sermon, survived long after the arrival of immortality, but almost none of the "essential" beliefs. Whether we can convince ANY devout Christian of the merits of cryonics remains an open question. I don't intend to do so, but perhaps founding a religion with weekly services, singing, and all the rest would reach such people. To Mark Negative: It's interesting here to consider what happened in countries deprived of oil. South Africa, for instance, before it gave up apartheid, made its gasoline from coal. Yes, that made gasoline much more expensive, but then no one in South Africa could buy oil on the world market. If the loss of oil happened suddenly, then it would certainly cause lots of unpleasantness. In that I even agree. Yet a lot depends on how fast that loss occurs. We're presently not prepared to use the many alternatives, so that if the loss happens slowly enough we'll simply end up using an alternative for oil, of which there are many. There are even right now companies that can make oil from oil shales (mined but not taken from a well) at prices close to the older prices before the present surge in price began. See what happens if the price of oil remains as high as it is now. The world, and even its prosperity, will not vanish at all just because some formerly common commodity becomes rare. As individuals and for cryonics, we must keep in mind the possibility of recessions or depressions. One more problem we must deal with to reach immortality --- and perhaps not even close to the most serious problems. Best wishes and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26393