X-Message-Number: 26402 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:00:32 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: The Salvation Army and cryonics Hi Rudi! I remember years ago when I went to New Guinea. At the time I would have said that I was an atheist; now I say that I think religion and the existence of God are irrelevant questions. One of the things I noticed was that lots of religious groups, from Catholics to various kinds of Protestants, had set up parishes in New Guinea. And yes, it was easy to find New Guinea people who believed in 7th Day Adventism and various other "modern" religions. I also noticed two other things: every one of these parishes, regardless of the variety of Christianity they promoted, did important things for those who lived nearby. Educating the children, getting everyone better medical care, and all the rest. And the second thing I noticed was that NOT ONE group of atheists, or agnostics, or members of US churches which fundamentally don't seriously believe in God --- NOT ONE showed up anywhere in New Guinea doing good things for and to the locals. You should not feel at all bad about your association with the Salvation Army. We can't do much charity work at all if we try to do it alone, and very few if any such charitable groups aren't associated with a religion or religious feelings of some kind. I can't really say why this should be, but that's the way people are. I remember once reading something Ettinger said, to the effect that religious people seemed more receptive to cryonics than most free- thinking liberals and other such people. You may even find a few people in your charity work who will come around to cryonics, of course not without lots of thought and time. After all, Brian Wowk was quite right in one sense: cryonics is NOT a form of religion, and should not violate anyone's religious ideas. The problem here is that it also conflicts with central current ideas -- so central that many believe those ideas are religious ones and violating them offends their religion. Yes, dealing with those feelings and ideas is hard, especially since we're dealing with ideas we think are complete delusions. But if you wish to do charitable work, you must deal with this problem too. I suggest that you remember what you're doing, and that it needs to be done, no matter what irrelevant ideas many of those doing such work may have. Best wishes and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26402