X-Message-Number: 26432 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Badger <> Subject: Re: Cryonics and Religion I'd just like to add a few points to this discussion if I may. I'm a big fan of yours Dave, but I'm not in agreement with you on this one. You repeatedly say that religion "causes" people to choose against being cryonically preserved. Isn't that an oxymoron? Both organizations are free to make their arguments and it is up to the consumer to choose. But of course they don't have to choose one or the other. They can choose both. After all, you can be fervently religious and choose cryonics so that you can continue to spread your God's word that much longer and save that many more souls. Death (and joining your God) will still be an option after resuscitation won't it? Christians may even choose to stay until the Messiah returns. According to them, Earth will become a paradise upon which Jesus will rule forever. If however, becoming a cryonicist somehow leads to hanging around non-believers and subsequently becoming a non-believer as a result, AND if the religion is true in its beliefs, then a much greater wrong has been done than if it were the other way around. After all, the cronicist may become immortal, but Christians may become immortal plus be in the company of their God. Also, I think the freedom of religion allows them to make grandiose promises so you're not going to prevail in any attempt to limit what they can promise as long as there's no coercion. (although I personally feel there may be psychological coercion at work). They can say pretty much whatever they want as a religion. As a non-religious, scientific enterprise, we can't. Finally, I think the greatest hurdle to the successful resuscitation of cryonics members is the long-term survival of the cryonics organizations that house them, and that means avoiding the ire of social and political Goliaths like religious organization. Like it or not, our survival depends on staying under the radar of those who could and would destroy us. The tone of this nation since 911 has turned decidely more conservative and religious in it's thinking and it is not a good time to be out of the mainstream and rocking their boat. That's not being smug or selfish or unmoved by the loss of those human lives that choose against cryonics, but we'll ultimately save more lives by surviving as a movement and developing the science that will provide more persuasive arguments for joining our cause. Best wishes, Scott Badger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26432