X-Message-Number: 26445
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
Subject: use of force against religious groups
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:55:49 +0100

> Further regardless of what they say,
> I know for a fact that many people think that
> their religion guarantees them eternal life.
> I want the religions to clear this up with their followers
> and put disclaimers in their messages.

I think that there are probably many priests and so on who agree.

> A.  God does exist!
> or
> B.  We hope God exists.

The problem, is how you define "God". The definition "The Whole of
Everything" was suggested by digital pioneer Alec Reeves.

> Consider the famous passage John 3:16
> (NKJV): "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
> that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

The Bible can be considered as a work of fiction based on fact, or
"faction". People use this book as a basis for teaching people how to live
in a manner that benefits themselves and those around them.  "God" is a
character, as is "Jesus". "God" is the personification of an idea, as occurs
in ancient Greek plays. "Jesus" may be based upon someone who actually lived
in physical reality. I do not see how it is feasible to require this book to
be re-written so as to be legally or politically correct.

This Bible passage can be interpreted as saying "The whole of everything
*resulted in* (gave) Jesus being killed. " The idea of one person giving the
life of another is used by politicians when they "give" their conscripted
citizens to be killed in war, and therefore is very useful to such

Even today people cannot reach a decision on what is meant by "self" or
"consciousness". It is unlikely that whatever originated this Bible passage
had an accurate idea as to these concepts either. But if they used the
concept that if an individual devoted his thoughts to God and Jesus
entirely, then such thoughts do continue indefinitely. It could be argued
that this is an opinion. It is the opinion of everyone that people are
continuous before and after receiving a general anaesthetic. It is the
opinion of cryonicists that people are continuous before and after receiving
a cryopreservation and revival. But without really knowing what the
continuity of self is, these are only opinions.

Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and

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