X-Message-Number: 26481
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:21:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Badger <>
Subject: Re: Dave Pizer and suits against religion


Your argument seems invalid to me because your premise is far too weak.

Where's the evidence that religions explicitly provide guarantees? I've
never heard a religious leader use that term. They make claims and
offer promises based on beliefs which are in turn based on faith since
they have no hard evidence to support their claims. Ask them and that's
what they'll say. Ask religious leaders if they provide guarantees to
the members of their church, and I'll bet practically all of them will
back away from that term. If they really did offer guarantees, they
wouldn't deny it. 

Another big problem with your argument is that you assume that this
alleged guarantee is THE reason people choose to be religious, but
that's a fallacy. There are many other factors that contribute to
religiosity which you are not taking into consideration. So even if you
were able to get religions to change their language in the manner you
describe (which you won't be able to do), the effect would most likely
be an insignificant one.

I'm also curious about why it is that the people who have offered
support for your idea have only sent private messages to you rather
than present them openly on cryonet. Did any of them give permission to
have their messages posted anonymously?

Finally, in an effort bring a little humor to the debate:

Our Church's Holy Guarantee: If, after faithfully following Our
Church's precepts and passing away, if you do not gain entrance into
Heaven OR if you are not 100% satisfied with your Heavenly existence,
simply contact the church within 30 days for a complete refund. Just
send an email to:  or call 1-800-YER-DEAD. This
offer void in Utah.

Best wishes,


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