X-Message-Number: 26579
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:00:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "D. den Otter" <>
Subject: Re: Mike Perry's idea (evolved)
Mike Perry's wrote:
<<To return now to the possibility of a low-cost
alternative to cryonics: I have looked into it, and
consulted with a mortician in my area. It appears
that a brain could be chemopreserved using
formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, or a combination of the
two, in a protocol that morticians could apply fairly
easily and inexpensively. (And they are flexible about
the protocols that would be used, within reasonable
limits.) Brains preserved this way could then be
stored, again inexpensively, for long periods at 40
degrees F, at an underground storage center. The cost
overall (for 100 years' storage) would be in the range
of burial and cremation, and far cheaper than cryonic
suspension. (Another possibility might be a permafrost
or cold-climate burial, say when enough brains had
accumulated, which would then be maintenance-free.) In
my view that would be much better than nothing, though
certainly not up to cryonics standards. I would be
very interested in contributing to such an effort.
Yet I have to say I would not be too surprised if you
didn't have too many takers. It would be seen as too
long a shot, like cryonics itself, only worse. Still,
I think it would be worth a try, and a few might opt
for it who would otherwise be buried or cremated.>>
How about the following setup:
1) Instead of morticians you use (local) pathologists,
who unlike the former know how (and are authorized) to
remove human brains. Costs: unknown, but presumably
zero - ~$1,000. It totally depends on the person(s)
involved.
2A) Once the brain has been removed it is put into
formaldehyde, formalternate (temporary storage only,
see http://www.ecu.edu/oehs/HazWaste/formalin.htm )or
some other protective fluid, and either chemopreserved
on location (hospital) or shipped in a special
container to wherever it will be further pocessed. The
brain is refrigerated (though obviously not frozen)
during the fixation period to further slow down decay.
When fixation is complete it is frozen in a regular
freezer (-20*C or so).
Cost of chemicals: not much, about $25 per liter, see
for example http://swehsc.pharmacy.arizona.edu/
exppath/resources/pdf/Formaldehyde.pdf . Presumably
only a few liters would be required for a brain, maybe
even less.
**ALTERNATIVELY**
2B) The brain is fixed using some kind of non-toxic,
non-flammable preservative, or not fixed at all and
simply straight-frozen in a household freezer.
3) The chemopreserved or straight frozen brain is
placed into a small freeze dryer like this one:
http://www.freezedry.com/t_models.htm (costs about
12K). If formaldehyde or some other flammable / toxic
fixative is used, a modified freeze drying unit may be
required; something like the ones used for
plastination (see
http://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/anawww/plast/s10.html ).
4) The brain is dehydrated in the freeze dryer for
about 30 days (see
http://www.freezedry.com/r_process.htm for more
detailed info). According to the manufacturer this
should cost about $10-30, i.e. almost nothing.
5) Once fully dehydrated, the brain is placed in
either a stainless or plastic container along with
some dessicant. It could also be encased in a block of
(polyester) resin.
6) The container or block is placed in a household
freezer (a larger model should be able to accomodate
at least half a dozen or so brains). Costs: say,
$3-500 for the freezer (once every 10 years or so),
and $50 for electricity/year. These are fairly
conservative figures.
The storage freezer and the rest of the equipment
could be housed in a cryonics org's building, or in a
separate facility. In either case, not much space
would be needed; one medium sized room, or two smaller
ones, should suffice. I.e. you don't need a whole
facility for this sort of thing.
**ALTERNATIVELY**
After removal the brain is treated as described at:
http://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/anawww/plast/s10.html
http://www.koerperwelten.de/en/pages/plastination.asp
(The Silicone S-10 Standard Procedure would be used,
after which the brain would be put into an airtight
container and stored in a freezer. Costs: variable,
but used equipment should be in roughly the same price
range as the freeze dryer).
Note: certain new procedures could make the
plastination process both cheaper and easier, see for
example http://cor-labs.com/process.htm
----
David Pizer wrote:
<<How would the morticians proceed from a business
stand point?
Are they set up to do one now?>>
As mentioned above, pathologists would probably be a
better choice. Local volunteers could also be an
option (brain removal has to be done carefully, but
rocket science it ain't). Perhaps local cryonics
groups, if available, would be willing to help out. It
would certainly make sense to integrate low budget
preservation with standard cryonics, at least on a
local level.
<<How much would it cost?>>
It depends, on a lot of things. But 15-20K should be
more than enough for all the equipment, and brains
should be (significantly?) easier and cheaper to
transport than whole bodies.
<<How would the patient get his brain to them?>>
The brain would either be removed in a/the local
hospital or local combined cryonics/low budget
'facility'.
<<Where is the underground facility the brains would
be stored in?>>
It would probably be better to store the brain
containers in freezers at one of the cryonics
facilities, or some small dedicated facility. Ideally
there would be at least 2; one in Europe, and one in
the US. But storage at either Alcor or CI (SA, ACS?)
would be an excellent temporary solution, as far as
I'm concerned (of course, the CI/Alcor/SA/ACS folks
might beg to differ...)
<<How much would that cost?>>
Electricity about $50 a year. Rent, if any, depends on
the location, space used etc. Ideally one of the cryo
orgs would donate free or cheap temporary storage
space (i.e. a couple of square meters for the
freezer(s)).
<<Who would store the brains?>>
See above. For the time being at least, preferably a
cryo org (could be on a subcontract basis or
whatever).
<<How do you want to contribute to this effort?
Money?
Time?
Set up the company that does this?
Run the company that does this?>>
I don't have much money at the moment, but I'd
certainly like to help set something up. Maybe, once a
specific protocol has been selected, some kind of
fundraiser could be organized? After all, 'universally
affordable' suspension is a noble -and overdue- cause
if there ever was one.
<<Why do you think there would not be many takers for
this much-less costly option?>>
Well, as a certain famous guy once said, "Only two
things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former."
BUT... there should be at least *some* takers as this
cheap alternative will be available to those who need
it most: the terminally ill and the elderly of modest
means. The freshly deceased, even. No thinking ahead
or fancy financial planning necessary; if you can
afford a modest burial, you can afford a (long) shot
at immortality. Never again will cryonics organization
have to turn away desperate last minute cases; just
redirect them to CheapFreeze.com! (yes, that's a joke,
but permanent annihilation is no laughing matter).
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