X-Message-Number: 26599 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "D. den Otter" <> Subject: Nine, ten, never sleep again... (reply to RBR) Vin Diesel wrote: <<Plastination, freeze drying, chemical fixation, perma frost burial, and other attempts to preserve the 'information' of a brain are exactly equivalent---from the perspective of personal survival---to annihilation.>> Yeah, but so is going to sleep. The loss of consciousness is the real divide when it comes to (the illusion of) 'personal survival'. And while it could be argued that sleep is something of a grey zone, a state during which the 'self' retreats rather than dies, there can be little doubt regarding the absolute consciousness-stopping power of deanimation followed by cryopreservation. All electrical activity, and therefore the ethereal 'essence of self', stops. You're as dead as a doornail. But really, who cares? <<It therefore greatly disturbs me that Otter is suggesting these methods be used by cryonicists, and supported by cryonics organizations.>> Only as a last resort. However, ultimately plastination, permafrost burial, freeze drying, regular cryonics and vitrification are all just different flavors of the same ice cream. None of them can truly save the essence of self (only mind uploading or sleep-eliminating drugs/genetic modifications could do that); all they can do is offer some religion-free peace of mind. Oh, and guess what? Free will and even time itself are almost certainly just subjective illusions. No one ever really lives, and no one ever really dies. But, again, who cares? I sure don't. Now back to our regularly scheduled program... Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26599