X-Message-Number: 26600
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "D. den Otter" <>
Subject: Re: low-cost option

<<With diligence and hard work I think we can get
something going and we'll then see how much the public
is interested.>>

Yes, exactly. It should be significantly easier than
setting up a full-blown cryonics organization, in any
case, and something like this has to be tried at least
once imo. 

<<To start: I spoke to  a local mortician (Stephen
Rude, Rude Family Northwest Mortuary,>>

ROTFL!!  

<<Phoenix AZ) last October. He could do brain
preservation using formaldehyde and/or glutaraldehyde.
Total cost would be in the neighborhood of $2000-$3000
per case.>>

Would this be a whole-body perfusion? When would the
brain be extracted and by whom?

<<On our end, a company could be set up, call it the
preservation service or PS, to deal with the 
mortuary, much as a cryonics organization would do to
obtain desired services. (That is, the prospective
client or representative would arrange with the PS to
take the case and the PS would deal with the
mortuary.)>>

The same could be done for plastination services. The
PS could officially place the order (something which
can't be done by 'unqualified' private individuals)
with a company like VisDocta (in Italy, see
http://www.visdocta.com/ ), which would collect the
brain (maybe extract it too) and process it, after
which it could be sent cheaply via 'regular' mail, as
a harmless teaching or research aid, to the storage
facility (presumably located in the US). Total costs
within Europe would be about 6,000 EUR. This includes
shipment to the plastination facility ('collect &
return').

Of course the PS could also, eventually via a network
of local contacts, make the necessary arrangements
with a pathologist (extraction) and mortician
(transportation), and perform the preservation
procedure at its own facility.

<<Where is the underground facility the brains would
be stored in?> The place I know of is Underground
Vaults & Storage, Inc. in Hutchinson, Kansas.
<How much would that cost?> The figure I was given,
for 40-degree F  (4.4 C) storage in a limestone cave,
was $6/cu.ft./year, or (since a brain would 
occupy about a cu.ft, including packaging), about
$6/patient/year or, in constant dollars,
$600/patient/century.>>

That's very cheap, but don't you think it would be
better to keep the brains at -20 C in a freezer?
$50/year per 6-12 brains still isn't very expensive,
and it would in many ways be better than permafrost
(fewer and less severe temperature fluctuations etc).

Also, do you think chemopreservation is better than
chemo + freeze drying, or straight freeze drying? As
mentioned before, brains could be freeze dried for
about $15-30 a piece during a ~30 day period.

<<Who would store the brains?> The Kansas outfit would
do it if the containers were hermetically sealed.>>

How about a concrete freezer vault in a place like
VentureVille?

<<How do you want to contribute to this effort?>:    
<Money?> My funds are limited, but I could be a
contributor in a fundraising effort, or deal with
lesser expenses out of pocket.
     <Time?> I'd be willing to volunteer some
reasonable amount, say up to 5-10 hours per week,
other amounts negotiable.>>

Same here, pretty much.

     <<Set up the company that does this? Run the
company that does this?>>

I could 'run' the European branch, assuming there will
be one.
 
<<Maybe once the initial steps were taken and you
actually did get something going, a cascade of public
interest would follow.>>

Another small step towards a more civilized world...

<<We would also want to discuss a lot of issues such
as whether to make the PS non-profit or for-profit,
how the Society for Venturism might help (with
fundraising, for example), and so on.>>

Yes; shall we move this discussion to private email,
or a dedicated mailing list (Yahoo group)?

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