X-Message-Number: 26614 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:22:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "D. den Otter" <> Subject: Low-cost option, various replies "Mathew Sullivan" <> <<My father was one of those last minute tough luck cases. If it had been anyone else, I doubt that anything would have been done.>> Yes, and that is exactly the problem. <<Unlike the average cryonics case, I should stress that none of the cells are viable as a result of fixation.>> They don't have to be. NO brain or body that has so far been cryogenically preserved can be deemed 'viable' in the traditional, mainstream sense. All will need extensive (nano) reconstruction and upgrading. <<My father will likely be dependent on a mature form of molecular nanotechnology to construct a new brain after decoding the old one if there is anything to decode.>> As long as there's a brain, there is always *something* to decode. If you look at what is already possible with today's relatively crude forensic and archeological techniques, there is every reason to believe that eventually we --or rather our successors-- will be able to reconstruct pretty much anything. The DNA alone should offer a wealth of information, much of which is currently still 'invisible' due to our still primitive decoding (etc.) techniques, just like germs were 'invisible' until people developed microscopes. <<In regards to room or refrigerated storage, don t forget where there is water there is life. If microbes can live within nuclear reactors, there should be more than enough opportunity to survive in a bath of fixatives.>> That's why I have been suggesting freeze drying and plastination, rather than just chemical fixation. <<Please note this was an experiment done on my part with the gracious support of many others and is not part of any formal procedure provided by any cryonics organization as far as I know.>> And Mike Perry wrote: <<...I am not aware that Alcor or any other cryonics organization has plans to offer chemopreservation as one of its options, or to offer storage space to an operation that does.>> Time to set up a dedicated low budget non-profit org, then. The sooner, the better. I am (among other things) prepared to suck up a substantial part of the incorporation costs, assuming they don't exceed $1,000 or so. http://www.keytlaw.com/az/entities/nonprofits.htm (just an example) Doug Skrecky writes, regarding Mike Perry's idea: <<I hate to rain on your parade, but deterioration of aldehyde fixed brains precludes chemopreservation by itself as a long term storage option. [...] Long term preservation requires that all liquid water be removed, by storage at temperatures below the glass transition temperature as with cryonics, or alternatively by complete desiccation. The later possibility still requires some temperature control, as well as a complete oxygen seal.>> Yes, which is exactly what I've been suggesting for the last couple of years. <<I suggest that low cost brain preservation options fall into two main possibilities: 1. freeze-dry 2. fixation followed by low temperature drying>> And don't forget plastination... Anyway, my semi-educated guess it that freeze drying would, generally speaking, be the easiest, safest, and least destructive method. Basically, after deanimation the brain should be extracted and put in a freezer as soon as possible. {Alternatively it could be cooled to 3-5*C and pre-treated with a preferably non-toxic fixative.} Once frozen solid, it is put into a small freeze dryer and dehydrated for ~30 days. It is then either encased in resin or put into an airtight, possibly vacuum sealed container along with some dessicant, and stored in a household freezer at about -20 C. The freezer should ideally be placed in some kind of fire-proof concrete vault. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26614