X-Message-Number: 26744 From: Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:23:19 EDT Subject: questions Brian Wowk (see yesterday's Cryonet) give two nice references that I hadn't seen before, but clarification is needed. I had repeatedly said that, to the best of my knowledge, no mammalian brain had ever been subjected to the vitrification procedure that Alcor now uses for its human neuro patients, stored at liquid nitrogen temperature, and then adequately evaluated. A couple of days ago I repeated this, but a bit sloppily or with less precision. The references cited (Lemler et al) were useful and encouraging, but glossed over some points. A hasty reader might conclude that brain vitrification with liquid nitrogen storage is a done deal, and also that rabbit kidneys can be vitrified well enough for routine transplant. This does not seem to be the case. The lowest reported temperature was - 140 C, and the period of time at that temperature was not given. The rabbit kidney results could be read as long term survival of vitrified transplants, but it didn't actually say that, and my impression is that rabbit kidney results, while much improved over those of years earlier, are still considerably short of what would be needed for human clinical use. And the composition of the solution "M22" was not given, so there is no way for us to do any independent verification. Perhaps Brian or one of the authors would comment on these points. The secrecy issue is an unsolved problem. Presumably 21CM wants to cash in on any potential commercial market, e.g. for organ transplantation. However, as I read the patent law (in my amateur way), you can publish your results (in any venue, doesn't have to be a recognized journal) and have up to a year to apply for a U.S. patent, while you are protected against someone else preceding you. As far as the brain is concerned, there is no serious commercial potential, aside from the tiny cryonics market. Seems to me we should just be open about our results and try not to duplicate effort. Publish our results freely as they come, and forget about cryonics royalties or monopolies. Looking for commercial advantage here seems very short-sighted and counterproductive. Robert Ettinger Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=26744