X-Message-Number: 2733 From: Date: Sun, 08 May 94 23:19:02 EDT Subject: CRYONICS more want/ought Concerning identity, survival, and life strategy: I have said the key question is not what we want, but what we OUGHT to want, and how to discover this. Thomas Donaldson says he doesn't understand what I mean by this, which certainly shows that I haven't been clear enough. I'm a little surprised, because Thomas has not only read my recent few, brief, hurried and semicoherent postings on CryoNet, but has also read my many pieces over the years in THE IMMORTALIST--although he has not had an opportunity to read my book manuscript in progress. Well, let's see what I can do in another brief space here. On one level, it is deceptively simple to say that we "ought" to want whatever will result in our greatest long-term satisfaction, whatever will maximize the individual's pleasure/pain ratio over future time. We need to honor, not our present apparent wants necessarily, but what our FUTURE wants are likely to be, as best we can calculate. This helps, but raises many difficult questions, both biological and physical. Part of what I mean Thomas does recognize when he mentions inconsistent beliefs, and the need to think carefully about them. But he apparently overlooks the most basic inconsistency, namely, that two wants may not only require conflicting means, but that two or more wants may BASICALLY contradict each other. Or even if two wants do not contradict each other, they might run on separate tracks, and in some circumstances it may be necessary to make a choice. We need explicit, rigorous criteria for making such choices, not just hunches about what is plausible. On one level, a prime example of contradiction might be the urge for self-preservation vs. the urge for self-sacrifice, both of which have evolutionary origins. On another level, there is "self-interest" vs. "altruism." One cannot make a decision just by introspection, asking yourself what you "really" want or what you want most--although this can help as a start. When the first "self circuit" appeared (the first feeling being), it was presumably at a level lower than human--perhaps much lower. The pleasures/pains, or satisfactions/dissatisfactions that it felt were presumably related to survival, and concerned such simple things as feeding, sex, comfortable surroundings, avoidance of danger, etc. (These would include the Four Fs: Feed, Fornicate, Flee, Fight.) There was certainly a potential for conflict. (In one of Heinlein's books, the protagonist newly-wed couple, hungry after a hard day's work, always had to ask each other: "EF or FF?") Certainly the primitive choice between Flee and Fight was sometimes made wrongly (and still is). Evolution proceeded. There may have been some kind of primitive urge to act, for the organism to use its faculties and abilities and express itself, so to speak, i.e. some proto-drive to accomplish something, to flex its muscles and neurons. But mainly the urge or willingness to work--hard and long--and to pursue curiosities relentlessly, arose out of the rewards reaped when the organism accepted short-term discomfort in return for longer term gain. Eventually, "psychic" or mental satisfactions came usually greatly to outweigh the simpler drives. Most people have things they would rather do (usually) than eat or copulate. An artist or scientist may work into the wee hours and disregard physical comfort. A fanatic may sacrifice his own life (yours first, of course) just to satisfy some insane ideal or imagined deputation. Mere habits or traditions can EASILY take precedence over basic necessities or simple reason. Finally we came to Lorenz' "parliament of instincts," a disorderly, brawling, and often thoroughly confused place of deals and compromises. Although the first order of business is just to make reasonable guesses about fundamental priorities, and then try to maximize the future satisfactions of the persons we hope to become, the ultimate aim is to develop RIGOROUS criteria of "right" and "wrong" by identifying and studying the self circuit. We need to know the biological (physical) nature of feelings of good and bad, how many kinds there are, whether conflicts exist or can exist, whether new ones can develop, how the hierarchies relate, etc. It is possible that there are no answers we will like. But I am fairly sure that, even if it turns out we are fundamentally conflicted, we can change that...maybe even while remaining "ourselves" in some acceptable sense. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2733