X-Message-Number: 27358
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:23:13 +0100
From: Eugen Leitl <>
Subject: Re: [CN] a partial answer to Leitl
References: <>

On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:46:47AM -0500, Thomas Donaldson wrote:

> Even to suspend someone we want their temperature much lower than
> the review you quoted in your older message. The place to look for

Every minute of warm ischemia results in cumulated damage. 
Any patient needs to be on CPR, ventilator, meds and a rapid 
descent of body core temperature initiated ASAP. 

If you're warm and dead long enough your perfusability 
will suffer, so you'd approaching a straight freeze.

I'm surprised these basic facts need mentioning, here, to you.

> what's been done to bring down people's temperature (prior to 
> doing work with them) is work done prior to heart surgery... and
> of course the work by cryonicists.
> One major effect of bringing the temperature down to just above
> freezing is that the only kind of damage that can occur at low
> temperatures is mechanical. By attempting to bring someone down
> low enough WITHOUT freezing them, you have a good chance at 
> avoiding mechanical damage too ... why there is such an interest
> in vitrification. As you might guess, vitrification at a  low
> enough temperature isn't easy, either.

Vitrification is easy enough if you load your tissue with
sufficient molality of the right cryoprotectant mix, and cool
quickly enough.

Ability to load requires good perfusion, hence a patient in
good shape and stabilized early.
> As for damage due to a low temperature, I would not expect any
> at all except for that due to mechanical injury. In that sense
> I don't understand why you try to separate the different damages
> for a suspension patient.

See above.
> Finally, as for sending something from PERIASTRON, there is nothing
> I have that wouldn't take up far too much space on Cryonet. I will
> try to send you a list of books to read next issue of Cryonet.

I'm looking forward to receiving your list. Anybody else is
welcome to post references to key papers in Cryobiology and
elsewhere (I'm trying to build a reference library of
electronic papers).

Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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