X-Message-Number: 27958 Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 00:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Platt <> Subject: whales etc. Bob Ettinger's message includes some remarks that may give a slightly incorrect impression about the terms under which Suspended Animation offers procedures to CI members. > First, it seems unlikely to me that death will often be > predictable within a few days, so that you may need > repeated standbys, or a long standby, at very high expense. I believe death can be predicted at least a couple of days in advance in about one-third of cryonics cases, according to an examination of records by Alcor when they were reassessing their standby policy. In any case, the SA agreement with CI offers either a pay-as-you-go plan, in which CI members only pay for as many days of standby as they desire, or a flat-rate plan (payable in advance with cash or with life insurance) that offers up to two full deployments of unlimited duration so long as a significant risk of death exists. In such a situation, Suspended Animation (not the member) takes the financial risk of a second deployment and/or a standby that lasts a long time. Cryonics cases requiring more than two standby deployments are rare. > Second, if you do call for a standby, how long will it take > the SA team to assemble and arrive on site? Surely, in most > cases, at least half a day. And if the patient is shipped > without waiting for SA, you owe them the standby anyway." Bob of course is correct that it takes time to deploy standby personnel. However if death occurs unexpectedly for someone who has made arrangements with Suspended Animation, and we are unable to perform all procedures as a result (for example, because of clotting prevents blood washout with organ preservation solution), SA's agreement states that the company will charge only for procedures that are actually performed. If the CI member has prepaid for standby, the unused funds will be returned to CI to be added to funds for long-term patient maintenance, provided the member has made no other request. > Third, if death is expected reasonably soon (within six > months) the patient can be put under hospice care (either > at home or in a hospital or hospice facility) which greatly > reduces the red tape. There has been prompt action in all > of our several hospice cases." Agreed. But the hospice situation also greatly improves the chances for extremely prompt and productive action by a standby team. > Fourth, if you look at all of the information on our web > site, and looking also at Dr. Pichugin's work, it doesn't > look anything like total destruction within a day or so. > Beached whales dead for two days have shown several > biomarkers not too far off living values, as I recall." Well, this is good news indeed! I would certainly hope that a CI member who is discovered "within a day or so" does not share the fate of this particular whale: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/whaleblowup.html > Hopefully, the point is clear that brain structure and > enzymatic activity and even some brain functions survive > freezing even when freezing is done after hours of > unprotected clinical death and even with minimal or no > cryoprotection. Citation below." But, the question is not whether structure survives hours of warm ischemia. The question is whether it's worth buying a little extra life insurance, to reduce brain injury. Most people, I think, would prefer to receive treatment if they were facing a threat such as a brain tumor. If we are serious about the concept that a cryonics patient is "not necessarily dead," it seems equally obvious--to me, anyway--that we should seek treatment to minimize ischemic injury. This is especially true since standby-transport work, if prepaid with insurance, is of comparable cost to major surgery, also paid with insurance. Also, the cost of buying an additional $50,000 of life insurance (for standby arrangements) is much less than the cost of buying the initial $50,000 of life insurance (for cryopreservation), roughly speaking. Since almost 800 people have chosen to pay significantly more, at Alcor, than the CI+SA combination fee required at the Cryonics Institute, apparently the majority of people signing for cryonics seem to feel that standby-transport work is a good idea, and are willing to pay a premium for it. The purpose of Suspended Animation is to develop better ways to provide the procedures that such people want, while charging them slightly less than they would pay elsewhere. This sounds a generally good idea to me. --Charles Platt Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=27958