X-Message-Number: 28080
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: economics
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:27:28 +0100

> >  You can trust me I'm from the government.
>
> This is the exact same "dismal song" every coporate pig or wannabe-pig
> sings, "trust me I'm from an honest-to-god corporation".

Maybe, but there are more corporations than governments. Corporations get
where they are by offering something that people want. Governments get there
by offering people a choice often from only two alternatives, and often the
choice is made on the basis of which one will take less.

Maybe the best way to improve the world is not to confiscate and concentrate
wealth into government hands, but to educate people to spend wisely.

> First, people with lots, and often enormous amounts of money, are,
> contrary to common sense folk wisdom, actually no happier than their
> less wealthy counterparts

I don't doubt it

> , and are statistically more prone to
> depression and other forms of psychopathology.

but the wealth enables them to be miserable in comfort and get dignified and
responsive medical help in complete privacy.

> I can send anyone who
> is interested a list of the psychological research which lends heavy
> empirical weight to this opinion.

This may apply because they can get to psychologists that other people can't
access through public and regulated systems, and these doctors actually
write their papers in time paid for by their rich patients.

> "Western marketing's most important principle is to encourage the
> consumer to buy with as little reflection as possible

it may be true in general, but I don't behave like this. In fact very few
cryonicists do. There is often complaint amongst those that are signed up
that some new enquirer doesn't see the logic immeditely and prioritise the
re-arrangement of his life and finances to facilitate his involvement with
cryonics.

> Thanksgiving 1999, the San Antonio Express News reported that
> thousands of shoppers began lining up outside of WalMarts, Best Buys,
> and Targets at 2 am for the new "tradition" of after-Thanksgiving
> shopping. The newspaper reported that most shoppers said they had no
> idea what they wanted to buy. They were simply lured out by the
> promise of sales."

I can well beleive that, and I know people who spend large portions of their
free time wandering around town centres looking at shops. (At least Anthony
would approve that they are adding to town centre congestion.)

But the answer surely is education and not the force of law and government.

> Third, wanton consumption is not a good idea for human beings' because

Again, I like to keep things, especially expensive things, going for a long
time and I object to all this pressure to upgrade and make spurious
replacements. But as long as there are people willing to do it, it will
happen. As I said in an earlier post, if the undevweloped nations want to
get back into software and they really have the talent, then Microsoft's
business methods could be removed by replacing their product.

> > Mao Tse-tung and Stalin had ideas much like yours and
> > their great leap forward lead to the starvation of tens of millions of
> > people.
>
> The Red Threat on Cryonet again! Actually, their ideas are nothing
> like mine, but because you have not read the ideas of Mao, you would
> not know this.
>

I can't recall you ever having stated how you would delete "the rich" from
the world, only that you are concerned that they exist. So there is no
wonder that people will suspect that you are proposing some form of
expropriation and extermination. That is the only method that has been tried
in the past -- people don't know any other. Regardless of whether it is
honourable ethical or whatever, it has been shown that it simply doesn't
work in terms of changing the way civilisation works.

In practise, the cost of mass produced manufactured goods in terms of hours
at the average wage to earn this cost is falling. With nanotechnology and
replicators, it will approach zero therefore that in part may produce the
world you seek. Unfortunately the cost of "professional" services increases,
and even though people may try to vote with their currency by not using
them, government regulation can force the issue in the professionals'
favour. Employing people as compliance enforcers, inspectors, wardens or
whatever, funded by fines, is a good way to massage unemployment figures.
Also making things like tax laws and property transfer regulations so
complicated that only someone with years' training can understand them is
another way of creating bogus "industries" that only the well off can afford
to use.

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

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