X-Message-Number: 2815 Date: 09 Jun 94 02:54:52 EDT From: Mike Darwin <> Subject: SCI.CRYONICS Keith's Foley Note that the title for this piece is Keith's *Foley*, not Keith's folly! I have been and continue to be terribly busy, so my postings have been very truncated. Since I have been critical of some of Keith's posting re the last Alcor case, I wanted to take a moment to make a positive comment, among others. I already knew about the use of a Foley catheter to block the aorta (and thus obviate the need for complex surgery to cross-clamp it) since Keith had told me of his idea shortly after I left Alcor. However, what I have not done is to congratulate Keith publically on coming up with a very neat idea. I have not used it yet on a human, but almost certainly will. And yes, it is simpler actually to just do a third aortotomy and pass the Foley retrograde down the aorta -- I have done this myself already. In short, Keith's contribution is a valuable one -- one which will help me and others shave time/complexity off Neuropatient surgery and allow me to cut costs by doing the work myself or using my less skilled and less expensive surgeon. Thank you, Keith Keith asks for alternate explanations of the cause of the pressure drop without accompanying volume loss. Here are some I didn't have time to write about before: 1) The pressure monitoring cannula tip may become blocked with a clot. This will cause a fairly precipitous drop in pressure (readings) -- and it happens all the time. It is particularly likely to happen on a case with a long postmortem delay. What will frequently happen is that a clot will float in front of the catheter tip (often an ANCHORED clot) and block it. For this reason I run Intraflows (devices which continually flush the pressure catheter with a few cc/hr of saline) on clotted cases. When we lose our waveform or our pressure on a dog (live) the FIRST thing we do is go over to the Intraflow and squeeze it to flush the catheter (the Intrflow will give a bolus of saline when it is squeezed). 2) The pressure transducer may have malfunctioned. 3) The TEK monitor may have malfunctioned. 4) There may have been a leak in the path from the patient to the pressure monitor dome. I have "lost" pressure due to someone catching a gown tie on a stopcock handle and rotating it to the "closed" position. I might also note that I would expect valve failure from glycerolization to be characterized by slowly increasing flows and decreasing pressures. How sudden was the pressure drop and what were the relevant flows/pressures at the time? How far did you try cranking up the flow (to see if pressure would come up) before you stopped? How low did the pressure go to and how quickly. These are all questions, answers for which would help a great deal. I believe Keith said that he thought this problem was not very important. In this case for this patient this may be so. But any time I see an unexplained phenomenon which brings perfusion to a halt I WANT TO KNOW MORE. If it happened once, it can happen again. Understanding WHY it happened is the first step to preventing it next time. Finally, one or two people have commented on the tone of my first response to Keith (Charles Platt being one of them) characterizing it as unfriendly or strident. Believe me when I say this was not my intent. There is enough hard feelings going around without dragging technical matters into it. I meant my post to be simple, straightforward and free from any hidden agendas. I mean this one the same way. My intent is simply to find out what happened and to evaluate the reported events in the context of cases already done. (If we can't learn from the past then we are in really sorry shape.) Mike Darwin Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2815