X-Message-Number: 28151
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 09:09:48 -0600
From: "Anthony ." <>
Subject: unavoidably political

> Message #28149
> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:58:51 +0200
> From: "Eivind Berge" <>
> Subject: Anthony
>
> I have been reading Cryonet for ten years, but
> rarely had anything to contribute.

That isn't surprising, considering the content of your mail - it reads
like fuel for a flamewar.

> However, a pathologically jealous
> common thief I think anyone can understand.

Hey - that hurts! I was born where Robin Hood lived - what do you
expect? Pathological jealousy is in my peasant-stock blood.

> I was born a libertarian,

Amazing. Do you think there is a libertarian gene?

> Ever since I can
> remember, I have felt more sorry for rich people paying taxes than
> poor people starving -- because stealing is *unfair*.

Why are the poor starving? Has nothing been taken from them? Are they
starving because they are too lazy to feed themselves? Is it something
to do with inherent cultural disadvantage (i.e. being born poor in a
violent household)? Or may be it is because people like you are
ripping-off their welfare.

> Although I am
> now more worried about the man-hating > feminists

What "misandrist" feminists have you read? Can you name names? Try not
to worry little man, white patriachy is still in control.

> I still believe taxes are
> morally wrong, period.

I take it you mean all taxes? Presumably, then, you are some sort of
anarchist who does not think we should have nation states, law courts,
hospitals, and all the other things taxes pay? This is all interesting
in theory, and I'm not fan of nation-states bloated on their
self-importance, backed by belligerent armies. But I'm not a fan of
corporate "security forces" (employed by government with our taxes)
either.

> I myself benefit from precisely the type of
> system you are advocating: at 28 I have never had a job and am living
> on welfare. (And education didn't change it either, as I've got plenty
> of it.)

I consider highly educated people on welfare to be theft.

> Working simply
> does not pay in your socialist utopia,

I have never advocated a socialist utopia. I have only ever suggested
that some taxes are good (like the ones that provide a safety-net for
failed health and finances, or that fund the arts, or
child-protection, or care for the elderly), and that the richest 200
people in the world might could (if they tried) tackle some difficult
social problems head-on.

> and some of us have the moral
> backbone to contribute to destroy the system rather than pay for
> somebody else to do what I do.

Does sitting on your ass strengthen your backbone?

> If I were born into a fair country, I
> would have conducted my life otherwise.

Name a country you consider fair. Now explain why you aren't trying to
immigrate there.

> By the way, "rapine," as you so tiresomely keep
> misapplying, is not an adjective.

Don't be so rapiningly rapine Mr Rapine.

> And if you
> want to learn about the kind of people you'll likely wake up with from
> cryonics, get used to it.

Funny, I don't attach myself to political labels, but I have nothing
against certain forms of libertarianism. I think the utilitarian J.S.
Mill wrote some excellent things that some libertarians have
integrated, like the idea that "over himself, over his own body and
mind, the individual is sovereign." I think that each person should be
guaranteed the greatest possible liberty that would not interfere with
the liberty of others, so that each person may maximize his or her
happiness - but this maximum individuality should take place within
maximum community. A wholly individualistic slant would be blind to
the actualities of human nature and human society.

We could get into a debate over libertarian philosophies - the pros
and cons of the different kinds - but many "Cryonetters" seem hostile
to this kind of discussion, even though it is directly relevant to how
we will live, die, and - in our cases - be preserved. Cryonics is
unavoidably political.

It makes sense for cryonics organisations to be non-partisan, but it
is not surprising that many (vocal) cryonicists are quite willing to
adopt political labels and express their individualistic tendancies -
cryonics is "out of the box" thinking, it is non-conformist, so it
takes a certain individualism to even get this far. Funny thing is,
many cryonicists want the wider community to listen and tolerate (if
not embrace) cryonics, yet these same people object to the things
which work towards keeping said communities stable, healthy, and just
- because they operate on the assumption that that their
self-interested actions will always serve human needs better than
government.

Anthony

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