X-Message-Number: 28154
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:31:03 -0600
From: "Anthony ." <>
Subject: Re: Libertarian economics
References: <>

On 6/30/06, egg plant <> wrote:
> Anthony ." <>
> >I see taxes as a social good
>
> OK, there is no disputing maters of taste.

I should have said SOME taxes.
How to you propose to run a modern, egalitarian society with
absolutely no taxes? Taxes help people have access to education,
protection, justice & healthcare regardless of their income. I realise
you don't like such "levellers" because hardworking Lord Egg III gets
his precious lolly eaten into, while underserving street scum get a
taste of soup.

> >I don't mind paying for the medical bills
> >of those who can't afford it
>
> Fine, if you want to pay somebody's medical bills then pay them, you don't
> need taxes for that.

The point is that EVERYONE is forced - yes forced - to help people who
are sick and could not otherwise afford treatment. Just as you are
forced by law to help someone in mortal danger if there is no risk to
yourself - e.g. calling 911 when you walk by someone laying in the
street with their head bleeding (if you don't, you could be punished,
according to the circumstances). Most people don't need to be forced
to help others in this way - and those that do need to be forced,
should be. Unless you want to live in a society where no-one gives a
damn about anyone else (which is fine if you can afford your own
private army).

> >and I'd happily meet a tax increase if
> >it funded cryonics
>
> You'd happily make people spend their own money in ways you like and happily
> forbid them from spending their own money in ways they like. In other words
> you'd happily steal their money.

Nice twist. I said *I*'d happily pay tax for cryonics - it is more
likely that people will take advantage of cryonics this way compared
to the current way we do things. If others are not happy, the issue is
debated.

> >I do mind funding wars and such
>
> Then why do you love taxes that force you to do so?

I don't. When did I say I loved them? Me say: Some taxes good. Some
taxes bad. You say: All taxes evil. Clear?

> >but the democractic process is about
> >ironing out problems.
>
> Like hell it is!

That's the theory - I'm sceptical about democracy too, but it is
better than everything that has come before it. But rather than work
with this, you'd opt for the form of libertarianism that is about
forcing people to deal with their own problems - regardless of who
caused them, or whether that person can help themselves or not. Such
politics is ahistorical at best.

> >I pointed out that social pressures lead
> >the poor to spend money on status-items
> >to boost their social standing and sense of esteem.
>
> And I pointed out that lack of money is not the reason public schools suck,

Interesting points, but they're on a tangent. These problems don't
condemn the entire system. We could write a very long list of all the
money wasted and the problems associated with government services. But
I'm not convinced that a McSchool is a better alternative.

> And a friendly word of advice, if you want to be known as a friend of the
> poor drop the paternalistic attitude you have toward them, they won't like
> it.

I'm sure you consider being forced to wear your seatbelt paternalistic
too - what's a few 1000 more road-deaths compared to the freedom to
drive fast and beltless?
I do object to the sorts of punishments meted out for things like this
- you'll find a sympathiser in me when it comes to victimless crimes,
capital punishment, etc.
I'm not sure what paternalism of mine you're referring to. Besides,
I'm merely writing on Cryonet, not running for office, so I'm not too
concerned about my image.

> >Should we then sell the schools to McDonalds and IKEA?
>
> Absolutely! If a corporation wants to buy a school they must think they can
> make a profit from it,

That's the problem dear Eggster. Schools aren't a cash cow, they are
places where children are - hopefully - equiped to be thoughtful
citizens and productive members of the community.

> they must think they can make a good school that
> people will want to send their children to. If they're wrong about that and
> people would rather send their kids to another school then the corporation
> will go broke, if they're right then they will make lots of money and the
> children will actually get educated and not just warehoused.

If all the government schools were replaced with McSchools or
MicroSchools, some people wouldn't have a choice as to whether to move
their kids around, especially as this situation would quickly result
in schools which people couldn't afford - which would hire the best
teachers - resulting in massive class distinctions in educational
quality and future employment.

> >in Alberta [ ]  the hospital beds are over-flowing
>
> Big surprise! What do you expect with socialized medicine?

This is because AB is trying hard to move away from socialised
medicine. There's nothing "socialised" about closing hospitals.

> >the class-rooms are over-flowing
>
> What do you expect with socialized education?

What do you expect from a conservative government which cuts tax &
bribes its voters with any surplus so you can't pay for schools to
stay open? Funny how you keep going on about "socialised" when AB is
the most conservative province in the country.

> >Would you rather a criminal organisation
> >provide cryonics, or one that was legal?
>
> If cryonics were illegal I wouldn't have much choice.

That does not address my question.

Anthony

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