X-Message-Number: 2824 From: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 14:33:17 EDT Subject: CRYONICS Donaldson & values Thanks again to Thomas Donaldson for showing where my exposition of values failed in clarity. In part, this may be due to the excerpted and abbreviated nature of the Net version, but still each discussion should be clear in itself. Let me try to meet Thomas' objections--if I can in another short space: First, any individual's values pertain to HIS overall satisfaction, no one else's. It is not PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to be motivated by anything other than self interest, since the only thing that can ever matter to anyone--directly--is what goes on in his own head. (We leave out of account tenuous possibilities such as direct mental interactions between individuals etc.) The individual can, of course, estimate values from the viewpoint of other people, or from the viewpoint of a social entity such as a state or a church, but this is only to help him decide where his own best overall interests lie. Obviously our common interests affect my individual interest, etc. Thomas says one good postulate would be that "...all other people have worth only insofar as they have worth to me." That is a crude and unpleasant way of putting it, but factual from the standpoint of the individual--any individual, including those who would view the statement with horror. (Again I note that each individual, and each institution, has its own agenda and values, and none exists in isolation; nevertheless, nothing is or can be INTRINSICALLY important to you except your own personal welfare.) Second, how do we decide which values are valid? This comes in two parts. Part One is just logical: a valid value system must be internally consistent, and the derived values--those obtained by calculating probable results of policies--must be based on correct reasoning and mathematics. This is something that, to a considerable extent, we can handle right now, and it yields results often at variance with traditional values. Part Two is biological, and we need more experimental and theoretical information before we can put it to good use. We need to know the anatomy and physiology of the Self Circuit; we need to know which values are truly basic and which derived; we need to know the mechanisms by which a derived valued acquires apparently autonomous status, and so on. How is music appreciation or art appreciation or patriotism translated into thrilling feelings? To what extent can we edit values without unacceptable change in the individual? And so on. In other words, if this viewpoint were adopted, then we could immediately accomplish some beneficial changes in personal strategies, and could also suggest lines of research that should ultimately allow much more. As a final note, I reiterate that memory is not necessarily the be-all and end-all of survival. It is very important certainly, but "you" could probably survive with virtually zero memory (other than "read-in" memory) of the details of your previous life. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2824