X-Message-Number: 28587 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:58:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Platt <> Subject: growth and obligations Regina Pancake is of course totally correct. Every new member of a cryonics organization represents a future obligation, and if you are not fully prepared to satisfy those obligations, the capability must be developed first. Unfortunately building capability is a really difficult, expensive, and unglamorous task involving a lot of hard work. It also requires appropriately skilled people, who are in short supply. By comparison every cryonicist I have ever met has ideas for promoting cryonics, because this is a more pleasant activity which may not seem to require special skills, and a small expenditure achieves results that are immediately visible in the form of colorful literature, DVDs, and other items which make everyone feel good. In addition there is the unprofitability factor. CI argues that it makes money out of last-minute cases, but I don't think anyone is proposing to achieve "growth" in cryonics via last-minute cases (and Alcor is not very enthusiastic about them anyway, for reasons which I share). So, "growth" typically means signing someone who is in 30s or 40s (people over 50 are less likely to sign, according to the demographics I looked at five years ago). That person is likely to live for another 35 to 45 years at least. So long as cryopreservation minimums are not adjusted upward for all members on a regular basis, and so long as a typical member does not buy insurance with face value greatly above the minimum, I think it is a fairly safe bet that when the person dies, the cryonics organization may lose money on the case. I believe the costs of cryoprotectant and equipment for controlling perfusion have outstripped inflation, and of course the cost of vitrification solution, in particular, has been hugely subsidized, since none of us pays for the years of research that went into its development. Saul Kent and Bill Faloon have taken care of that, and incidentally I do not see any wealthy benefactors ready to step up and take their place. Alcor has tried to address the funding problem with its standby-fee system, and this has resulted in a "war chest" to cover standbys, which is a very good thing; but really this works by having younger members subsidize older members, because the younger ones are likely to be paying into the fund for more years than the old ones, before they die. This system will be viable in the near term but in the long term it sounds uncomfortably like social security to me. Of course it is a lot better than nothing, but still I think the fundamental problem is that we have a "business model" where the organization says that it will try to perform a procedure 35 or more years in the future for a fee that is established today--a very unusual proposition. If all cryonics members were required to pay cash in advance the problem would be solved, since the organization could earn interest on the advance payments; but "cash in advance" is the kiss of death in cryonics, if you will excuse the phrase. A hospital would never operate on this basis. Imagine a hospital telling you how much money to set aside at age 35, for that cancer operation you may need when you are 75! So: If the financial basis for cryonics involves such major unknowns in the long term, we may question the wisdom of signing as many more members as possible in the near term. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=28587