X-Message-Number: 2873
Date: 11 Jul 94 05:18:42 EDT
From: Mike Darwin <>
Subject: CRYONICS Response to Cardwell

Robert asserts that my response to him was some sort of ad hominem attack.

Hardly.  I mention personality conflicts as limiters on people's ability to work
well together and prepare for emergencies  precisely because of my own personal
experiences.  Yes, of course, some people hate me.  And yes, of course, that

impaired my working relationship  with some (but not all) of those who held such
animosity. Robert, if you think that was ad hominem you are as mistaken as you
were about my first comments.  A piece of advice: when in doubt it is usually
wise to give people the benefit of the doubt (try being in doubt a little more
often!) -- I took some time and effort to make two thoughtful (and I hope
constructive) replies to your initially accussatory post -- I gave you the
benefit of the doubt.  As to how people consider you in Australia, I couldn't
care less, and I would be the first to point that people who are intensely
disliked (sometimes by just about the whole world) have made stunning
contributions to human advancement.  Nobody says you have to be a sweetheart --
but you do have to have the working cooperation of others in a critical
situation.  I have no idea whether that is the case for you vis a vis others in
the Australian group or not (and as I said before, don't care).  I merely
pointed this out as a potential problem, and as you yourself have noted, it is
one of which I have every reason to be considerate of.


Sorry I missed your question about what constitutes a qualified volunteer.  Most
simply that is someone who knows how to and is capable of (comfortable with)
carrying out that part of the cryopreservation operation s/he has taken
responsibility for.  Thus, if someone is to go get ice, and help pack the
patient in it they must be reliable, know how to drive, not get frazzled in an

emergency, and so on -- even simple tasks (which are also critical tasks) can be
surprisingly demanding.  (I have worked with people in and out of cryonics who

literally could not manage to get ice -- if you sent them to the corner 7-11 for
it would arrive 12 hours later.)

If someone is to undertake to perfuse someone the qualifications required go up

considerably.  There are many easily made mistakes which can result in loss of a
significant amount of perfusate in a few minutes (such as failing to back-tie a

vessel or to tie of a failed or discontinued cut-down, or result in pumping air,
and so on. Details are beyond the scope of presentation here, but basically I
would expect such an indivudual to understand the basic principles of bypass,
some basic anatomy of the circulatory system, and have memorized certain
critical procedures and values such as safe perfusion pressures, cannula size
selection vs. flow rate, table height (i.e., fall) needed for adequate venous
drainage and so on.  And, I would also expect such a qualified volunteer to be
able to know what to do when confronted with the most common emergencies and
problems. This is just a thumbnail sketch -- it has been my experience in
medicine and in cryonics that if someone can think of a new way to do something
wrong they will.  This is why people are trained so intensively and taught
*principles* as well as cookbook procedures.  Understanding how things work
provides enormous safety.

Obviously, reasonable compromises have to be made and a volunteer trained to do
in-field washouts for cryonics purposes will not likely have the opportunity to
have the same standard of training as a professional perfusionist.  Exactly
*what* constitutes an acceptable standard of training will vary with the
organization.  Obviously, I have my own opinions here.  However, short of
posting an entire course syllabus with a description of the accompanying
didactic training, I know of no way to answer your question in detail.

Finally, Robert, I have no grudge against you and no animosity towards you.  If
you treat me in a friendly manner I will do the same in response.

Mike Darwin

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