X-Message-Number: 29273
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:24:22 -0700
From: "Jeff Davis" <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #29258 - #29269
References: <>

Let me begin with an apology.

In my post yesterday, I was overly harsh, undiplomatic, and smarmy,
thereby demonstrating more or less the same annoying behavior for
which I criticized Charles.  Pot, kettle, black.  Guilty as charged.

I regret it.  And I apologise.

Also, it is my impression that Charles has spent a good portion of his
life/energy in an effort to further the cryonics enterprise.  He has
paid his dues, and I have not.  So if, in providing a healthy dose of
skepticism, he may have (in my rarely humble opinion) overreached, he
has more than earned the right to a pass, if not several dozen.

Then bruce waugh writes:


> Charles is a charming host.  He has joined my wife and children on a number of
occasions, taken us on a jeep tour of the fascinating Sedona area, and
always given generously of his time.  My wife, who is not a
cryonicist, cannot understand the criticisms of him.  She and my
children like Charles very much, as I think anyone who spent time with
him would.  I am happy to call him a friend.

I'm sure Charles is a helluva guy(really) and that if I ever have the
opportunity to meet him personally, I too would come to like him and
would have to apologise for the harshness/rudeness I have directed at
him in this forum.  The distance and impersonal nature of internet
discourse makes rudeness "easier", but that's no excuse.

Then, Charles asks:

> "Now, tell me, how many of those millions of supposedly prime
candidates have _you_ encouraged to become members, let alone
activists?"

My answer: Members, none.  Activists, none that I know of.  That said,
let me add that I consider myself a cryonics advocate, but not a
cryonics activist, the latter entailing, in my view, a significantly
greater commitment.

So I apologise, and, in future, when Charles criticises and I
criticise back, let me say, "It isn't personal."

                                  **********************************


Now to the matter of the "millions of cryonics customers hiding in plain sight".

Third person sales.  To those about to lose a loved one.  The set of
all such people.  (When Bob Hope was dieing, family members asked,
"What do you want us to do with your body?" He is reported to have
replied, "Surprise me."  I was ready to rise to that challenge, but by
the time I heard about it, of course, it was too late.)

A couple of months ago there was a post -- I think from CI but I can't
find it in the archives -- about a son (I think) contacting CI about a
suspension for his mother who was terminal and whose death was
imminent or had just occurred.  Not at all uncommon.  It caught my
eye.  Again.

So here are several questions -- perhaps someone at CI can provide
some insight.  What depth of familiarity with cryonics did this caller
have?  To what promotional materials had the caller been exposed?
Guessing at the answers I would say: very little, and none.

An unsolicited call, from an uninformed buyer, for a $30K product,
widely ridiculed as bogus.  Indulge me if I speculate about the
implications.

It is my view that any person -- Mother, Father, Husband, Wife, Son,
or Daughter -- desperate to save a loved one, has the highest possible
level of motivation and the lowest concern regarding embarrassment or
cost.

Compare this to the first person customer, who (1) is not immediately
confronted by death, but rather with the immediate concerns of living,
and who probably doesn't want to think about death;  (2) confronts in
cryonics the challenge of "converting" to a radically different
perspective on life, one that is ridiculed and dismissed by respected
cultural authorities, and (3) (seemingly) faces a substantial monetary
outlay, challenging in both size and wisdom.   Which implies
respectively (1) Lack of motivation joined to active disinterest, (2)
inherent belief system resistance/rejection, and social challenges
such as ridicule, embarrassment, and risk to professional standing
(3) Substantial monetary loss, even possibly victimization.

When I last dealt with this:
Message-Number: 10435
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:04:47 -0700
From: Jeff Davis <jdavis@**************.com>
Subject: selling cryonics

Dr. Ettinger began his response, in message #10446, with:

Jeff Davis' piece on selling cryonics (Cryonet # 10435) has generated some
criticism, much of it sound--especially the parts about ambulance chasing
etc., an absolute no-no.

"...ambulance chasing... an absolute no-no."

I won't be coy. The implication is clear.  If you go "ambulance
chasing" after hurting, desperate, vulnerable people who are suffering
the imminent loss of a loved on, who can doubt you will bring down
upon yourself the mother of all shitstorms?

But that's where the demand is.  So rather than dismissing the
approach because of the serious challenges it entails, anticipate the
problems and plan in every way to overcome them: a new cryonics
"body", distanced -- so as to protect them -- from current orgs; the
utmost sensitivity in dealing with the hurting and vulnerable people
who are more than just "clients/patients"(if funeral directors can do
it, so can cryonics orgs); a publicity strategy/campaign defensively
crafted to blunt reactionary hostility; a program of building support
with government/regulatory people in advance of program launch, etc.

At which time, preparations made, you should be ready for the fight.

Or simply follow the current slow, steady, safe approach, and wait for
full reversibility to make all objections moot.

It is easy to IMAGINE how an ambitious outreach program of this sort
could get energetically harrowing, even lead to catastrophe for the
cryonics venture.  But if you step back from the unbounded nature of
fear wedded to imagination, the REALITY might conceivably be a battle
that is winnable.

Perhaps it's not yet time for so aggressive an approach.  But sooner
or later this fight will have to be fought.  Best think about it and
be ready.

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